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Topic review - Calling all Fletcher class DD fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Boy, that link to Finescale has more misinformation about the Post-WWII (and in general) FLETCHER class that would take a week to correct. Two different types of stacks on the class???? Sounds like that guy is thinking about the difference between BENSON and GLEAVES class units. Marvin has to be completely confused by the mixed advice.

Marvin,

Since you are modeling a Square Bridge FLETCHER, the Trumpeter 1/350 scale THE SULLIVANS is probably a better start of the two options. Both Tamiya and Trumpeter 1/350 scale FLETCHER kits have accuracy and "missing" parts problems (No flag bags? Really!!), but the Trumpeter kit is better suited to modifying to a post WWII FLETCHER. There are differences between the Round-Bridge and Square-Bridge FLETCHERS deckhouses. You do need to get a replacement bridge on the Trumpeter kit to be accurate. Trumpeter got the shape of the open navigation bridge wrong. Model Monkey has a nice replacement bridge. USS TWINNING was built by Bethlehem-San Francisco Yard, and the Bethlehem bridge version is the best option for you. The location of the door to the bridge "latrine" was changed to make it easier for the crew to access while on watch. The only external difference between the two types of bridges he offers, is the placement of one door.

I would recommend getting 3-D printed 5-in mounts from Model Monkey as well or from Black Cat to replace the kit mounts. Black Cat mounts are quite a bit more expensive, but you can get them with the gun captain's hoods. If you think you can scratch make those or don't want to go to that trouble, then Model Monkey mounts would work for you. That is a question we should have asked from you as well, how skilled are you at model building? Somethings can be scratch made, or may need to be scratch made for a 1953 version. Model Monkey doesn't have the post-WWII windscreen or overhead seen on Post-WWII FLETCHER "formerly" open Navigation Bridge. This would likely need to be scratch made.

For the 40-mm mounts, I would go for Black Cat 3-D printed mounts. They are beautiful and require little assemble to install. You do have to be careful getting them free from the support frame, but once you catch on, it is easy. There are other 40-mm mounts out there, but many are a bear to assemble. The waist quad 40-mm bulwarks ("tubs") are rather plain on the Trumpeter kit, you may consider getting the ones that Model Monkey makes. The aft twin 40-mm mount "tub" that comes with the Trumpeter kit is the wrong type. Starship Bob makes an accurate replacement. To be accurate, there are some unique features that need to be added to the deckhouse under the aft tub, that you can see in the images I posted earlier.

Black Cat also makes most of the bridge and deck details either lacking completely on the Trumpeter (and Tamiya) kit or poorly made by them. You will need Flag Bags, a Boat Winch, I would get Black Cat's 5-in Practice Loader it is beautiful, the various Open Bridge equipment, late war Mk 51 directors used with the Mk 63 GFCS, etc. The USN was still using floater rafts in 1953, you may be able to use the kit ones or can order them from one of the 3-D printers vendors.

There are photo etch radar antennas out there for SPS-6 radar (I think), but I don't think there is a PE version of the upgraded SG-1B radar antenna. Maybe Black Cat will make a 3-D printed SPS-6 and upgraded post-WWII SG-1B antenna. :big_grin:

Since you mention having problems with the Mk 10/11 Hedgehogs Platform, here is an overhead view of the bridge and midships deckhouse area, that you will need to do most of your mod work on. This image is a camera shot I took of a Booklet Of General Plans (BGP) for USS TWINNING dating from 1968 at NARA. But, in general not much change was experienced in this are between 1953 and 1968. This view gives you the shape of the hedgehog platforms (the USN modified the former twin 40-mm mount platforms for the hedgehogs installation), the layout and size of the Unit Commanders Cabin, the location of the tripod legs, and other details. If you need images of other areas, let me know and I can try to get them for you.

Image
Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:08 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
it appears the thread was removed maybe due to multi-posting, don't know so we'll try his original thread on finescale site. http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_su ... 86336.aspx
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
David,

Your posted link comes back as topic does not exist.
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Post WW2 Korean War Fletchers  Reply with quote
Hi;

Did you have a particular ship in mind? Many Fletchers went into mothhballs at the end of the war and were later reactivated for duty in Korea. Some of those remained in service until the 1970s. After Korea many of them were substantially modified. For example, the USS Cassin young took heavy damage from Kamikazi attacks during the war, was repaired reactivated for Korea and served into the seventies. Now it's a museum ship in Charlestown MA and very well maintained. It was substantially updated along the way and is significantly reconfigured from World War II. Quite a few wartime survivors followed the same process and the variations among them are substantial. Not only do ships in a class vary, but the configuration of a ship during its career does as well. It would be a good idea to pick a particular ship and research the daylights out of it. Generally speaking, the longer they last the more different they get. It's something to consider depending upon how much into the project you want to get. Hope this helps.

Regards, rjccjr
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:15 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Tim's story is here. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=304836
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:19 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Tim,

Knowing the answers to Hank's (BB62vet) questions would help us to answer your questions. Also, why you selected USS TWINNING (DD-540) and 1953.

USS TWINNING (DD-540) has an interesting history among the FLETCHER's in the Post-WWII era. She was one of five FLETCHER's selected on the West Coast to be Naval Reserve Training (NRT) units on the West Coast in 1946. Between 1946 and 1950, these five units were half "mothballed" and used as deck-side trainers and occasionally took cruises. Only a few of the weapons were functional. When the Korean War started these five were among the first units to be activated during the KW Mobilization and brought up to full commission. During her NRT years, she was still in her final WWII configuration, with five twin 40-mm mounts. After returning to full commission, she went through several refits/overhauls before 1953 timeframe that you mention as your target period to model her as. She went on to serve in the USN into 1971, returning to NRT service in 1964.

From about December 1950 to 7 June 1951 she was overhauled at Todd Shipbuilders and MINSY. These two yard periods resulted in her getting upgraded to the standard "5-Gun" configuration; five 5-in guns, two quad 40-mm and one twin 40-mm mounts, one five torpedo tube mount, two hedgehog ASW projectors forward of her bridge. At this point she still had her WWII radar suite on a pole foremast, except that her Mk 4 fire control radar was replaced and upgraded to the Mk 25 radar.

Then from 16 June to 15 September 1952 she was overhauled at SFNSY, where she received a tripod foremast, but retained her WWII SC-2 radar, also her sonar was upgraded at this time. Also, she had the Unit Commanders Cabin installed aft of the bridge (about one in four FLETCHER's received this mod). This also may have been when her six twin 20-mm gun mounts were removed.

This would be her configuration during most of 1953. However, since you say "after her refit in 1953", she didn't have a refit/overhaul in 1953. But she did have a "Restricted Availability" (short yard period) starting in December 1953. This work installed a new radar that was NOT available during her 1952 overhaul.

From 7 December 1953 to 4 January 1954, at the USN Repair Facility, San Diego, CA, she had her SC-2 radar replaced/upgraded to the SPS-6C radar.

This is where I'm unsure of what photos you need/want. I don't have images of her with a tripod foremast with a SC-2 radar, only after the SPS-6C radar was installed. However, replacing the SPS-6C that appears in 1954 photos is relatively easy to do. Here are the two images I have of USS TWINNING (DD-540) in 1954 after her "1953" radar upgrade. If I know what you need (the Commander's Cabin is tricky) I likely can get you images from a TWINNING image dating after 1954 or from another FLETCHER that will fill-in that information. I will tell you something that is unique, during her 1954-5 cruise with the 7th Fleet, she was modified with an interim Mk 32 ASW torpedo launch system (known as PMGL) at Sasebo, Japan on her fantail. I have photos of that installation dating in May 1955.

Image

Image

Here is an additional image dating from May 1955. Other than the mods done on her fantail for the PMGL on the fantail, this is how she appeared in 1954 and with a SC-2 radar in place of the SPS-6C radar, in 1953. You can see where the Commanders Cabin was located aft of the bridge under the tripod mast.

Image

PS; Should have checked Navsource sooner. They have a few good images of USS TWINNING (DD-540) from the 1951-53 period. ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/540.htm ...

Specifically, for her 1951 refit at MINSY ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0554014.jpg ... and ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0554015.jpg ... these provide good close-up views of her major upgrades.

Then for her appearance in 1953 prior to upgrading to SPS-6C, while she had the SC-2 radar on the tripod foremast ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0554025.jpg ... and ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0554035.jpg ...
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:08 am
  Post subject:  Re: Post WW2 Korean War Fletchers  Reply with quote
he is talking about this thread http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_su ... 86336.aspx & it is Rick E. Davis not R.E. David he is looking for.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Post WW2 Korean War Fletchers  Reply with quote
Marvink9 wrote:
Looking for information on post war fletchers. Specifically DD540 USS Twining. Trying to build but need help with some small items. Would like to get my hands on some good pictures during or right after her refit in 53. Information needed for detail work.
Thanks Tim


Are you building from a kit, if so, which one and scale? If not, what scale are you scratch building this model? Also, will your model reflect her in 1953 or later?
Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:09 pm
  Post subject:  Post WW2 Korean War Fletchers  Reply with quote
Looking for information on post war fletchers. Specifically DD540 USS Twining. Trying to build but need help with some small items. Would like to get my hands on some good pictures during or right after her refit in 53. Information needed for detail work.

Thanks
Tim
Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
I can echo, that it would help to know the subject of your planned build and scale. As the Korean War started and continued, FLETCHER's varied in configuration from units in basically the WWII configuration they had when they were mothballed and were sent before any major mods to operate off Korea in 1951, to being modified in one of several different configuration "stages" as units were upgraded. By 1955, the configurations settled down to basically two, a "5-Gun and a 4-Gun" configuration.
Post Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Retired USN vet, what scale model are you using?
Post Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Ret. USN Vet:

What ship are you planning on building, what year(s) does the build represent? I'll see what I can find. Is this possibly a ship you served in?

I was aboard USS STODDARD (DD-566) June 1966-April 1968 and currently am building a model of her in her 1968 configuration. See viewtopic.php?f=59&t=303053
Post Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:02 pm
  Post subject:  Post WW2 Korean War Fletchers  Reply with quote
Building a model of a Fletcher class destroyer and need more information on weapons configuration and general layout of Fletcher's during the Korean War pictures would help as well. Can anyone assist please.
Post Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Understood, Steve, my friend will order soon then. Thank you for your help with figuring out these turrets.

And thanks again for complimenting my English, I am truly happy to hear I still got it!
Post Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:56 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Tu11iy wrote:
So, Steve, you can print the turrets with late faces and early shell chutes, right? By late faces I mean the way they are on single-knuckle turrets for all 5. The ones on the double knuckle late turrets seem totally different. Can this be specified through your website?


Yes, please order the turrets shown on the website. When you place your order, there is an option for you or your friend to send me a message as part of the order. In your message, please describe the exact features you want. If your friend orders, he can write in Russian. I will be able to translate.

Your English is superb.

Cheers!
Post Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:22 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Modelling is not my primary hobby so I am not gonna chase perfection. My friend is, though, but I am doing all the talking here with you because his English is not good enough. Hope this didn't sound offensive
Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Tu11iy,

A comment on the 5-in/38 mounts on the Tamiya FLETCHER kit;

"I for one am going to just add PE to Tamiya's Fletcher turrets and forget it, ..."

This is one of the faults with the Tamiya kit, the mounts are under-scale. It always best to replace them for a more accurate looking kit. The poor 5-in mounts on both the Tamiya and Trumpeter kits is why there are aftermarket replacements. The 5-in/38 mounts on the DML BENSON-GLEAVES kits are pretty good as is, at least for earlier war periods, so no real need to replace those.
Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
So, Steve, you can print the turrets with late faces and early shell chutes, right? By late faces I mean the way they are on single-knuckle turrets for all 5. The ones on the double knuckle late turrets seem totally different. Can this be specified through your website?
Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Willie,

See my reply under your model build (Picture Post/...In Progress)

Hank
Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:06 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans  Reply with quote
Tu11iy wrote:
Did I get it right that you can't print the hood on top of the turret in 1/350, Steve?

Ты прав. Капот слишком хрупок в масштабе 1/350, чтобы выдержать процесс печати, используемый моими машинами. Машины будут раздвигать капот во время печати. Если капот переживет процесс печати, процесс очистки, скорее всего, разрушит его. В масштабе 1/350 мои принтеры могут печатать колпак как сплошной блок, но не как полый колпак.

Наименьший масштаб, на котором могут быть напечатаны колпаки, - вероятно, 1/200.

Есть другие 3D-принтеры, которые используют другой процесс, который может печатать колпак в масштабе 1/350. Эта технология чрезвычайно дорогая, около 12 000 долларов США (856000 рублей), что мне не по карману.
-----
You are correct. The hood is too fragile in 1/350 scale to survive the printing process used by my printers. The printers would pull the hood apart during printing. If the hood survived the printing process, the cleaning process would likely destroy it. In 1/350 scale, my printers can print the hood as a solid block, but not a hollow hood.

Smallest scale the hoods can be printed in is probably 1/200.

There are other 3D printers that use a different process that can print a hood in 1/350 scale. That technology is extremely expensive, about $12,000 USD (856000 RUB), unaffordable by me.
Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:05 am

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