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Topic review - Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Kevin,

From the other images and knowing the general configuration of the class, I knew what was what ... mostly. I was just pointing out that higher-res scans on these prints wasn't going to provide much more details. The grouping of three-four sailors on the starboard side of the pilothouse roof, looks close to the canvas covered 20-mm guns before the bridge. :smallsmile:

By the way, do you happen to have images of USS MONSSEN wreck's fantail area? Right now I'm not sure of the wreck's depth without hunting for that info, to know if she is "dive-able". Chuck Haberlein (formerly NHC) has said that there was a 20-mm gun added on the main deck in that area, besides the nine other 20-mm guns she had onboard. He can't provide images because they belong to the Ballard exhibition. Ok not likely you could have dived on MONSSEN, she lays at 2,000-ft depth. :roll_eyes:
Post Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:40 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks for those Rick! Much appreciated. I hadn't seen that overhead one before. :thumbs_up_1:

As for your comment "As you can see in the blown-up view of the bridge, trying to figure out some details is next to impossible (is that a gun or a sailor?)"

Not exactly sure which of those blurry shapes you refer to, but am sure you know - but for the benefit of others - there were 5 x 20mm surrounding the bridge. The two u/w photos below were taken in IIRC, 1995 and 1998, or circa there abouts. The two 20mm on the aft bridge wings (positions 3 and 5) were 'there' but already 'hanging down' so to speak, as became #1 by circa 1998 IIRC. (There were then two more adjacent to the aft funnel, making for a total of seven 20mm when sunk.) Unfortunately now - well, for many many years now - there is none, repeat none of the bridge standing whatsoever. It is just a pile of rubble, literally, on the deck as it were.

Also below is a photo of the torp tubes. As anyone who has read her AAR knows, she had a hot run in the port tube caused by the shock from the very near miss bomb port abeam, which caused it to 'eject' but was stopped when it hit the back of the forefunnel(!). The photo below shows that torp sticking out of the tube (the funnel having already collapsed by time the photo was taken.)

Anyway, I am not a modeller, so I wont bore you all with u/w photos of the wreck (although I think I may have posted some here before?), but if anyone would like to see a few more, then just ask.


Attachments:
DD483-5x20mm-Bridge-Area.jpg
DD483-5x20mm-Bridge-Area.jpg [ 394.27 KiB | Viewed 101 times ]
DD483-port-torp-hot-run.jpg
DD483-port-torp-hot-run.jpg [ 375.67 KiB | Viewed 101 times ]
Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:19 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Kevin,

I have scanned those images at NARA II, College Park, MD, plus three other images taken off Oahu dated 27 January 1943 (I learned that the dates the PHNY put on the images taken in 1942-43 by USN Patrol aircraft off Hawaii, may not be the exact days when the photos were taken). I have posted at least three of these elsewhere in I think this thread back in late 2008. I have reposted them below, including a close up overhead view of the bridge, along with newly uploads of the same images close cropped (Photobucket and Modelwarships size "rules" were different in 2008 when I uploaded these then). These images aren't going to be as high-res as what I scanned, for that matter not as high-res as I would scan prints these days (I scanned these images back in 2007). But, in this case, I don't think it will make much difference given that the original photos were not the highest quality photography to begin with. Doubling the res wouldn't give you much more details.

What PHNY did on this GLEAVES class destroyer was "technically" what was authorized, but not to the authorized configuration-wise structurally. Note the clipping room added under the centerline 20-mm gun forward of the bridge and the "towers" that the Mk 51 directors would installed in.

As you can see in the blown-up view of the bridge, trying to figure out some details is next to impossible (is that a gun or a sailor? :scratch: ).

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:55 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Gents,

I wonder if anyone here would have high res versions of images 1 and 2 below (especially 1) of USS Aaron Ward DD483 (post and pre refit pics respectfully) that they would be kind enough to send me offline? (I'd say 'post here' but the size limit here seems to be limited to a mere 400kb.)

I cant do much in exchange, except post some u/w images of her wreck taken back in the mid 90's not long after her discovery, when she was still looking like a fine DD (well, with a bent 'tail' and a few holes in her hull of course), that is long prior to all her upper-works collapsing into the sad and sorry pile of rubble she is today.

BTW; the 'two in one image' below is just a 'crop' of 1 and 2 I made up to compare the pre and post refit differences.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Attachments:
1     DD483 - 27-Jan-1943.jpg
1 DD483 - 27-Jan-1943.jpg [ 318.74 KiB | Viewed 177 times ]
2    DD483 - 1942.jpg
2 DD483 - 1942.jpg [ 352.04 KiB | Viewed 177 times ]
DD483 - 1942 top and 1943 bottom.jpg
DD483 - 1942 top and 1943 bottom.jpg [ 346.25 KiB | Viewed 177 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
fred_sirois wrote:
Oh yeah! When will the conversion parts to make the 1/350 Monssen be available? :thumbs_up_1:


Hoping to have final release and availability of them by the end of this month. Watch the Manufacturer’s section of this message board for official release info.

Rick E Davis wrote:
Matt,

That Nine 20-mm configuration was also installed on the other DesDiv 22 sisters, (DD-433 through 436) not just MONSSEN.

There are some other possible useful configuration ideas, first in my mind is the aft deckhouse for the 50-cal MGs installed in mid-1941 and only slowly replaced with 20-mm guns in early 1942. There were two configurations, one for the DesRon 7 units (five 5-in guns, 5-TT, 10-MGs) and one for the remaining units of the early group (four 5-in guns, 10-TT, 12-MGs).

Rick


Thanks Rick!

Matt
Post Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Matt,

That Nine 20-mm configuration was also installed on the other DesDiv 22 sisters, (DD-433 through 436) not just MONSSEN.

There are some other possible useful configuration ideas, first in my mind is the aft deckhouse for the 50-cal MGs installed in mid-1941 and only slowly replaced with 20-mm guns in early 1942. There were two configurations, one for the DesRon 7 units (five 5-in guns, 5-TT, 10-MGs) and one for the remaining units of the early group (four 5-in guns, 10-TT, 12-MGs).

Rick
Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:53 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Oh yeah! When will the conversion parts to make the 1/350 Monssen be available? :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:05 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Working on some great new accessories for the Gleaves class-

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2 Different Styles of Square Bridge available in 1/350 and 1/700.
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Latest print with heightened MK37 Barbette fitted with Dragon 5/38 and MK37

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Conversion parts to turn your Dragon 1/350 Livermoore into a USS Monssen in late 42

More exciting stuff to come!

Matt
Post Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:06 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Excellent - thanks Rick.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Well, at least some were NOT plated over. The exact number and locations can be disputed.

Here are a couple of the last images of USS LAFFEY (DD-459) in September 1942, some portholes appear to be open and others could be simply closed with the cover in place or plated over.

In this 4 September 1942 image of USS LAFFEY, I have adjusted the contrast, etc to try and pull out the portholes;

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This image was taken on 16 September 1942.

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And here is an image of her near identical sister, USS WOODWORTH (DD-460) on 13 August 1942. She still has all of her above the main deck portholes in place.

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:09 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
I am pretty sure the answer is "yes", but want to confirm... Were Laffey's portholes all plated over by November, 1942?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:37 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
many thanks Rick! Always precious and precise :cool_1:
Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
The image of USS LIVERMORE (DD-429) shows her in her post Anti-Kamikaze Mod in the summer of 1945, likely dating in June 1945. You can see the two quad 40-mm mounts aft and the two twin 40-mm mounts amidships that replaced ALL of her torpedo tubes. Also, she has the Mk 28 radar on her Mk 37 director. I wish I knew where this image came from, because I have not located it at NARA or elsewhere. Which is weird because she was modified at NYNY at the same time as her sister in May-June 1945 and post-refit photos of her are available.

USS LIVERMORE would have been painted the same as her sister, USS EBERLE (DD-430), Ms 21 because they were both assigned to the odd numbered DesRon 11. Whether she was painted with older 5-N purple-blue or newer #7 5-N Neutral Gray paint can be debated. This photo of USS LIVERMORE seems to either have been taken backlit to the sun or is a multiple copy from the original photo when compared to the USS EBERLE image below. I would guess the odds are greater that LIVERMORE and EBERLE are painted in Neutral Gray #7.

USS LIVERMORE and her sister were ordered to the Pacific, but didn't reach the war zone until the war was over.

DANFS entry; Though she departed New York 22 June, V-J Day found her still training at Pearl Harbor. She reached Japan 27 September escorting transports carrying soldiers of the Army's 98th Division for occupation duty.


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
According to shipcamouflage.com she was never in 11. In 42 she was in 12 mod. So I think either their website is incorrect or the photo is mislabeled on navsource.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:44 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Hi all, I just found this undated picture on Navsource: http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0542907.jpg
of USS Livermore. I think it is just prior 1942, probably summer 1941, but I can't identify with enough confidence that camouflage measure. She seems to wear a very dark livery...could be ms-4? Or is a normal ms-11 or 21...?
Thank you!
Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:26 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
USS BUCHANAN had a single quad 1.1-in mount installed on the starboard side. These photos aren't very good for details, they are significant more for the historical nature of the event. Other photos existing showing the quad mounted in place ... and NO Mk 51 directors or any other directors at this time.
Post Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:09 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Rick E Davis wrote:
On a recent trip to NARA I went into one of the USN photo collections, 80-CF, that I had not been in before. There were not many ship photos and the subjects varied quite a bit. But, there were a series of small size photos taken during the initial landings on Guadalcanal in August 1942 by a photographer onboard one of the transports who also went ashore. Although these two images are not of very good quality (I'm guessing he used a 35-mm camera with high-speed film), they are historically significant in showing USS BUCHANAN (DD-484) off Guadalcanal and only described as being taken "after the initial landings".

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Is that a quad 1.1" in he aft, starboard tub? It is difficult to tell what AA weapons are mounted back there.

MB
Post Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:09 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Sorry it has taken me a while to say thanks for the help. Have actually been spending a lot of time on the model and have not been on line much. Was not satisfied with some of the work I did so I took it apart and stripped it and started over. Thanks for the tip on the Wadsworth, a great help!
Post Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:14 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
I don't know of any USS LAFFEY (DD-459) specific drawings available that would be guaranteed to be accurate.

Even photos of USS LAFFEY are pretty few in number.

However, there are quite a few nice images of her almost twin sister USS WOODWORTH (DD-460). Many of which I have posted here.
Post Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:11 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Benson/Gleaves class (DD) fans  Reply with quote
Am new to the site and have returned to ship building after wandering off into other areas. Have noted some plan drawings of Benson/Gleaves class ships. Noted drawings of USS McCalla. Am looking for drawings of Laffey if there is anything out there.
Thanks for any help. Have enjoyed this thread and learned quite a bit too You guys are some serious researchers!
Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:54 pm

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