The Ship Model Forum

Many thanks for that, dick

Regards Phil

Given the flag superior L, I think your photo shows her in 1938. At that time she was serving with the 1st Tribal Flotilla in the Med so funnels bands at the time of your photo should have been red.

4th DF did not have flotilla funnel marking bands (on the aft funnel). But the divisional leader band on the forward funnel should have stayed red. I think I have a bit of colour film of her at that time (Med - 1939) which may just show the forward funnel - I'll try and dig it out.

Afternote: found the clip. Although the commentary identifies the Tribal as Cossack it was in fact the flotilla leader Afridi so just the 4ft-wide black band around the top of the forward funnel on her.

Can anyone tell me what the colour of the Funnel bands were of the Tribals of the 4th DF.Looking at Pre-WW2 photos I would hazard a guess at red with a white outline.Am I correct in thinking that?I`ve attached a pic of the Cossack.

Thanks for any help.

Regards Phil

Correction to previous post, should have read `lattice mast fitted` my apology.

I seek clarification on colours worn by HMAS Arunta after she lost her 2 tone scheme, noticed there was an enquiry earlier in the thread relating to this topic which appeared not to be answered, this 2 tone scheme was abandoned in late 43.

I believe she received all over scheme of G10 late 43 whilst still carrying pennant I30, at this time attached to Taskforce 74.
Sometime after mid 44 while serving with Taskforce 77 she received all over colour Chicago blue and carried pennant D5.
After refit mid 45 where a tripod mast was fitted, she still carried pennant D5 but appears to carry a 2 tone scheme of med. grey with a lighter grey for upper works, these colours I do not know, this could also be attributed to reflective conditions on the day and exposure issues.

I had once sourced this info previous, and vaguely remember reading on the application of Chicago blue, but cannot locate it again.
Could someone corroborate these colour and pennant changes, or supply the correct information which would be most appreciated.
Thanks for any help forwarded.

Dick, I was just reading "The Kellys" and found that Nubian was part of the 14th DF for the 1940-41 period, so I assumed that the aft funnel bands were red over black, but I wasn't sure about the fore funnel band. Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Doug

Couple of further small details: Nubian was serving with the 14th DF at that time so it would not have been two narrow black bands on the aft funnel as stated (p49) but a red one over a black one; the forward funnel band would have been red as well (not black).

Thank you to dick and tjstoneman. I think I now have enough information to make a reasonable accurate model of Nubian.
Doug

To add to Dick's post, a photo of NUBIAN after her Crete damage also shows that she retained her original main armament (8 x 4.7") at that time; replacement of "X" mounting by a twin 4" HA/LA took place whilst she was at Bombay for repairs.
Tim

"Is anyone aware of a photo of Nubian in this 1941 camo scheme with the pennant number F36?"

Quick answer: yes, but in late 1940 - see attached.

Long answer:

The Jan 41 date is doubtless another error by his editor/printer. Nubian was in the scheme approximately shown on page 49 of Vol 1 by early October 1940 at which time she did indeed still wear the Flag superior F (they seem to have been slower to change the letters in the Med Fleet).

The drawing depicts a scheme close to but not identical to a photo and film I have of Nubian sporting F36 at that time (Oct 41) and later photos at Crete (Spring 41) sporting G36. They show one single panel at the bow not the split one drawn, and a range of small differences in the dark panels' edge angles etc - see:

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickfalmouth/Nubian?authkey=Gv1sRgCNDw5abdodyeOQ#

Although similar, the scheme was not identical on the starboard side.

Note also that, contrary to what is stated, she in fact retained her tripod mainmast aft during her 1940-41 stint in the Med (it was not removed until her Bombay repair late 1941-42). Nor did she have type 286 radar 1940-41 - again this was fitted at Bombay. At her foremasthead 1940-41 was the diamond shaped DF antenna.

In Volume 1 of Alan Raven's Royal Navy Camouflage series he has an illustration of HMS Nubian on page 49. He states that the camo scheme shown was worn from January through May 1941 yet the pennant number illustrated is F36. It is my understanding that the Flag Superior F was replaced by G before June of 1940. Is anyone aware of a photo of Nubian in this 1941 camo scheme with the pennant number F36? I would like to build the WEM 1/350 Tribal in something other than overall AP507b but keep the original armament fit.
Thanks,
Doug

Sorry, I thought I added this to the Tribal class thread!

One for this thread ...

Well during this last week's trip to NARA I found exactly ONE non-USN ship in 40 80-G boxes. That is weird, normally I run into several. Actually, I saw several views of Training Sailing Ship ESMERALDA, but I didn't need to add any more images of her.

Here is HMAS BATAAN from a view off Korea in August 1952.


[img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/TincanREDavis/HMASBataanx100-Aug52.jpg[/img]

The Hobby Center in Ottawa sells Vanguard plans. http://hobcen.wordpress.com/vanguard-plans/

Haida is available in WWII or 1963. Good drawings. Lots of details.

Regards,
Darren

hello friend, I am Brazilian and I am looking for plans years the Iroquois destroyers with or without the upgrades, you could tell me or I seder these plans /



[quote="Admhawk"]Hi Tim,

I went by the photos on the WEM site. I could see the distinctive angled body on the armoured set, but I couldn't see it on the unarmoured set. It looked like there was no enclosure at all. Do you have a photo showing a glass cover?

If you look at Page 241 of British BB's Raven and Roberts, you see a reasonable photo of Valiant with the twin MK V mounts on B turret. They look the same as the DD mounts, no glass cover.

I don't have the 1/700 sets from WEM (1/700 isn't my scale) so I may be wrong, but from what I've seen, the MK V twin mount is powered and has an enclosure. I haven't seen it called armoured in any of the references I have. According to this site, http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm There is a MK VC, but I don't know what the difference is.

Unfortunately, it's not a well covered weapon in my references, so I can only go by what I see.

Regards,
Darren[/quote]

[quote="gerryw"]Does anyone have drawings/photos whatever, of the Tribal class ships of the 1960s? I have the plan and profile drawings from Model Boats many years ago, but don't have the sections.

Cheers,

Gerry[/quote]

You can check out the website of the (former) "Canadian Tribal Class Destroyer Association" ([url]http://jproc.ca/cta/[/url]), which has a fair few photos and media. I'd also recommend you find yourself a copy of the 1961 film "[url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053879/]The Great Impostor[/url]", which stars Tony Curtis and is based on the all-to-often-uncreditted [i]Ferdinand Waldo Demara[/i] ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Waldo_Demara]Wikipedia[/url], [url=http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.org/resource_pages/chars/demara.html]CFB Esquimalt
Naval & Military Museum[/url] (at HMCS Naden, Victoria, BC, Canada - by far and large, the SMALLEST museum I've ever been to, but fantastic displays nonetheless). Although he (Demara) had actually served on the HMCS Cayuga, the film itself was shot on the HMCA Athabascan II ("AthaB") with the interior shots filmed on the HMCS Micmac as the Cayuga was undergoing a refit at the time of filming. Oddly enough, my Dad was a radio operator on the Cayuga during Demara's stint-in-blue - apparently "Doc Cyr" was a nice guy!

In addition, there is a brilliant model of the Cayuga at the [url=http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.org/]Esquimalt/Naden museum[/url], and I know I've got about 30 photos of it laying around somewhere. I don't know the scale off the top of my head, but it's quite large (perhaps a metre in length, although the last I saw it was about 6 years ago). Upon looking for photos online of it, I came across [url=http://jproc.ca/cayuga/218_photos_model.html]this[/url], which is another fantastic rendition.

Hope this helps!

Very good Darren, that explains the shield, the second refit was in 1953-54 where it would have got the twin 3", TJ's photo was taken in 1952, and the first refit was in 1949-50. MacPherson's photo taken in 1960 has the twin 3".

The Hawk Graphics decal set D7003 http://www.hawk-graphics.com/images/decal_images/700_rn_rcn_wwii_hull_numbers.jpg has numbers that will work for the Nootka.

Nootka was unique among the Canadian Tribals. She was launched with 2 twin 40mm bofors on the aft house. You can see the shields in the photo as they faced aft. She was upgraded in stages, first with Squids and then the twin 40s removed and the 3"50 added. This photo seems to be the in between stage. Her final config was pretty much identical to the other tribals upgraded.

I have a Photo CD available of the Haida in the final config. http://www.resinshipyard.com/pages/photo_cd_list.html

Regards,
Darren

Thanks for the input about the Nootka. I was on the Haida once when it was located in Toronto. I should have a couple pictures of the Nootka from better angles. I have the cruise book for the Lowrey and they have a couple black and white photos of the Nootka that were taken by the ship photographer when my Dad took his picture. I have to scan them first.

TJ

TJ
Nootka as photographed is two mods beyond the RN Tribal as the later RCN tribals were originally somewhat different from the earlier RN tribals and Nootka as indicated in your photo has at least part of the post war ASW upgrade. As indicated by Tim, the Resin Shipyard is a good place to check, take alook at HMCS Haida (which is also a Tribal). Your photo is interesting as it seems to have the 2 squid mountings at the stern but I do not clearly see a twin 3" gun (USN post war, like Haida) as this mount is facing forward as per the twin 4 inch gun originally there and it seems to have an open turret around it also like the twin 4 inch gun. It ASW conversion took place during 1949-50 (MacPherson).

As to your original question, I did this model a year ago. Darren's instructions recommends Model Master Euro grey for the hull (vertical) and Humbrol light grey for the deck and superstructure (I used model Master light grey I think as I couldn't find Humbrol). It is a very nice two tone paint scheme and the current colour was not used until 1955.

Best Wishes
George

TJ,
Good luck with the conversion. If you look at the Resin Shipyard sight at Darren's Haida you'll see an excellent view of how much work you're in for.

I was wondering if any of you highly skilled fellows have any experience with the Flyhawk ESKIMO sets? I am going to attempt to turn the Trumpeter HURON into a more realistic version of HMCS HURON but have quickly realized that I will need to essentially scratch-build everything above deck level and cover and re-drill all of the portholes. I was thinking of using some of my hard-earned Christmas gift money to grab one of the sets to use the bulkheads and most of the fittings (I won't even begin to try to build their 4.7 or 4" guns). I had originally thought of copying parts of the Ultracast HAIDA I have (I'll be using the awesome WEM set for that one) but the fear of fouling up the originals has me stalled... I contacted Ultracast to see if they had any leftovers parts to see if could buy those but no luck there. Any tips before this joins the ever-growing list of WIPs?

Tim