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Topic review - Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Regarding the shortness of the masts in the Trumpy kit ,I replaced those in my build of a pre-war HMS Cossack with brass rod as I considered the kit masts too short.If you are planning to do the Cossack at the time of the Altmark incident ,there will be no 20mm on the bridge wings at that time .Apart from the 20mms the kit protrays a pre-war tribal ,another Trumpy time-warp!!

Good luck and an enjoyable build ,whatever you decide to do. :thumbs_up_1:

here`s my Cossack model;
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Cheers Phil
Post Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:27 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Thank you Maarten and Dick. Seems like I can do Cossack or Eskimo at the time of Narvik in AP507B as long as I change the flag superior on pennant number from “G” to “F” or I can do Cossack at the time of the Altmark incident with the leader band no pennant number.

Also, thank you Phil for the suggestion on fixing the sheer problem, that is something I might manage.

Any thoughts on whether those are 20 mms on the kits forward superstructure and if the kit supplied tripod mainmast seem a little short?
Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:02 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Given that the location of the film's doctorings on the hull correspond with the locations of shell hits suffered at Narvik, and the twin 4.7" at X position, the stills from the British Pathe film must show Cossack returning from Narvik. They certainly show her Narvik appearance.

At the time of the (earlier) Altmark incident she was acting as flotilla leader. At that time she wore no pendant number and did have the leader band at the top of the forward funnel -see various moments in this film:

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/briti ... ms+cossack

Tribals changed their Flag Superior from F to G in 1940 from late spring/early summer onwards.
Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:31 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Quote:
My thought is to complete the kit as Cossack or Eskimo at the time of Narvik. I figure overall AP507B (?) with the flag superior on pennant number changed from “G” to “F” or no pennant number if it is Cossack?


At the time of 'Narvik' the Cossack was definitely AP507B overall, plus still wearing pennant F03, even in May '41 this was still the case:
Attachment:
CossackMay41-1.jpg
CossackMay41-1.jpg [ 44.07 KiB | Viewed 955 times ]
Attachment:
CossackMay41-2.jpg
CossackMay41-2.jpg [ 58.16 KiB | Viewed 955 times ]

These stills are from a Pathe film made regarding the sinking of the Bismarck, but were possibly taken already on the occasion of the Altmark incident.

I believe Cossack retained this scheme for considerable time, even after taking over the squadron leader rol from HMS Afridi. Note also the forward funnel, being entirely AP507B, no black painted top part. Only on pictures of Cossack while sinking it is evident she wore the black funnel top, whilst having a colour scheme of AP507A hull with AP507C superstructure. The pennant numbers are not visible then (below the waterline already) but I think would have been deleted by then.
Post Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:06 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
This is my solution to the sheer problem on Trumpy`s 350th Tribal.I bent to foscle deck up by 2mm ,supported by a rod of plastic inserted in the hull crosswise .The sides were built using a small trianglular pieces of plastic card ,and and any gaps filled in with "Perfect Body Putty(good stuff that!).I also filled in the holes for the anchors as these are set too low anyway.
I think I`ve got somewhere near the correct sheer.
Cheers Phil

Image
Post Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:08 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
In my excitement, I rushed out and purchased the Trumpeter 1/350 Eskimo before I read of all the problems. Now, I could use some advice on the easiest way to complete it. I will make some corrections (ie. The pom pom) but others are beyond my skill level.

My thought is to complete the kit as Cossack or Eskimo at the time of Narvik. I figure overall AP507B (?) with the flag superior on pennant number changed from “G” to “F” or no pennant number if it is Cossack? The scheme might be a little boring, but it might be the best to at least attain some accuracy. Would what appear to be 20 mms on the forward superstructure also go? Does the kit supplied tripod mainmast seem a little short?

I had posted this in the general forum, but thought that this might be a better place. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Many thanks for that, dick

Regards Phil
Post Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:46 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Given the flag superior L, I think your photo shows her in 1938. At that time she was serving with the 1st Tribal Flotilla in the Med so funnels bands at the time of your photo should have been red.

4th DF did not have flotilla funnel marking bands (on the aft funnel). But the divisional leader band on the forward funnel should have stayed red. I think I have a bit of colour film of her at that time (Med - 1939) which may just show the forward funnel - I'll try and dig it out.

Afternote: found the clip. Although the commentary identifies the Tribal as Cossack it was in fact the flotilla leader Afridi so just the 4ft-wide black band around the top of the forward funnel on her.
Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:57 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Can anyone tell me what the colour of the Funnel bands were of the Tribals of the 4th DF.Looking at Pre-WW2 photos I would hazard a guess at red with a white outline.Am I correct in thinking that?I`ve attached a pic of the Cossack.

Thanks for any help.

Regards Phil


Attachments:
cossack%20dww21b.jpg
cossack%20dww21b.jpg [ 38.99 KiB | Viewed 1475 times ]
Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Correction to previous post, should have read `lattice mast fitted` my apology.
Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
I seek clarification on colours worn by HMAS Arunta after she lost her 2 tone scheme, noticed there was an enquiry earlier in the thread relating to this topic which appeared not to be answered, this 2 tone scheme was abandoned in late 43.

I believe she received all over scheme of G10 late 43 whilst still carrying pennant I30, at this time attached to Taskforce 74.
Sometime after mid 44 while serving with Taskforce 77 she received all over colour Chicago blue and carried pennant D5.
After refit mid 45 where a tripod mast was fitted, she still carried pennant D5 but appears to carry a 2 tone scheme of med. grey with a lighter grey for upper works, these colours I do not know, this could also be attributed to reflective conditions on the day and exposure issues.

I had once sourced this info previous, and vaguely remember reading on the application of Chicago blue, but cannot locate it again.
Could someone corroborate these colour and pennant changes, or supply the correct information which would be most appreciated.
Thanks for any help forwarded.
Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:21 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Dick, I was just reading "The Kellys" and found that Nubian was part of the 14th DF for the 1940-41 period, so I assumed that the aft funnel bands were red over black, but I wasn't sure about the fore funnel band. Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Doug
Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Couple of further small details: Nubian was serving with the 14th DF at that time so it would not have been two narrow black bands on the aft funnel as stated (p49) but a red one over a black one; the forward funnel band would have been red as well (not black).
Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:52 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Thank you to dick and tjstoneman. I think I now have enough information to make a reasonable accurate model of Nubian.
Doug
Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:00 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
To add to Dick's post, a photo of NUBIAN after her Crete damage also shows that she retained her original main armament (8 x 4.7") at that time; replacement of "X" mounting by a twin 4" HA/LA took place whilst she was at Bombay for repairs.
Tim
Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
"Is anyone aware of a photo of Nubian in this 1941 camo scheme with the pennant number F36?"

Quick answer: yes, but in late 1940 - see attached.

Long answer:

The Jan 41 date is doubtless another error by his editor/printer. Nubian was in the scheme approximately shown on page 49 of Vol 1 by early October 1940 at which time she did indeed still wear the Flag superior F (they seem to have been slower to change the letters in the Med Fleet).

The drawing depicts a scheme close to but not identical to a photo and film I have of Nubian sporting F36 at that time (Oct 41) and later photos at Crete (Spring 41) sporting G36. They show one single panel at the bow not the split one drawn, and a range of small differences in the dark panels' edge angles etc - see:

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickfalmou ... abdodyeOQ#

Although similar, the scheme was not identical on the starboard side.

Note also that, contrary to what is stated, she in fact retained her tripod mainmast aft during her 1940-41 stint in the Med (it was not removed until her Bombay repair late 1941-42). Nor did she have type 286 radar 1940-41 - again this was fitted at Bombay. At her foremasthead 1940-41 was the diamond shaped DF antenna.


Attachments:
Nubian f alex.jpg
Nubian f alex.jpg [ 19.43 KiB | Viewed 675 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:28 am
  Post subject:  HMS Nubian  Reply with quote
In Volume 1 of Alan Raven's Royal Navy Camouflage series he has an illustration of HMS Nubian on page 49. He states that the camo scheme shown was worn from January through May 1941 yet the pennant number illustrated is F36. It is my understanding that the Flag Superior F was replaced by G before June of 1940. Is anyone aware of a photo of Nubian in this 1941 camo scheme with the pennant number F36? I would like to build the WEM 1/350 Tribal in something other than overall AP507b but keep the original armament fit.
Thanks,
Doug

Sorry, I thought I added this to the Tribal class thread!
Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:16 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
One for this thread ...

Well during this last week's trip to NARA I found exactly ONE non-USN ship in 40 80-G boxes. That is weird, normally I run into several. Actually, I saw several views of Training Sailing Ship ESMERALDA, but I didn't need to add any more images of her.

Here is HMAS BATAAN from a view off Korea in August 1952.


Image
Post Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:14 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
The Hobby Center in Ottawa sells Vanguard plans. http://hobcen.wordpress.com/vanguard-plans/

Haida is available in WWII or 1963. Good drawings. Lots of details.

Regards,
Darren
Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
hello friend, I am Brazilian and I am looking for plans years the Iroquois destroyers with or without the upgrades, you could tell me or I seder these plans /



Admhawk wrote:
Hi Tim,

I went by the photos on the WEM site. I could see the distinctive angled body on the armoured set, but I couldn't see it on the unarmoured set. It looked like there was no enclosure at all. Do you have a photo showing a glass cover?

If you look at Page 241 of British BB's Raven and Roberts, you see a reasonable photo of Valiant with the twin MK V mounts on B turret. They look the same as the DD mounts, no glass cover.

I don't have the 1/700 sets from WEM (1/700 isn't my scale) so I may be wrong, but from what I've seen, the MK V twin mount is powered and has an enclosure. I haven't seen it called armoured in any of the references I have. According to this site, http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm There is a MK VC, but I don't know what the difference is.

Unfortunately, it's not a well covered weapon in my references, so I can only go by what I see.

Regards,
Darren
Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:07 pm

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