The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:42 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post a reply
Post icon:
None
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
Options:
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
what is the subject of this forum (the first part of the name):
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   

Topic review - Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
I skimmed the rest of the thread and couldn't find an answer so I'm posting this.

Does anyone know if camouflage used by HMCS Huron in the kit colour plate below was used by her and HMCS Haida during the June 9th, 1944 Battle of Ushant? I'm mulling building a diorama that includes these 2 sisters engaging the German destroyer Z32 as what happened in the later part of the battle.

I have two 1/700 Trumpeter Huron 1944 kits as well as Dragon's Z31 kit which I intend to convert into Z32.

Image
Post Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:27 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Hey Dick, That is a very interesting shot you posted of Warra on WNSF, as you, I would like to have a better photo myself.
A new paint job and pennant change late 45 before refit, no doubt little known, well done.
Post Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:56 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Here is said thread about the photos: http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1400434593.html

Said image of Warramunga: http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1400444765.html

Found another shot from that series: http://www.mustangone.com/putnam/Putn-323.jpg

Source of the photos is page 6 of the USS Putnam (DD-757) photo page: http://www.mustangone.com/putnam/photos6.htm
There are PLENTY of good shots of all things USN and Allied navies on there :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Wow! what a great shot, and the first broadside I have seen for this exact period, thanks Dick.
Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Brett,

Have a look over on Steelnavy. Someone has just posted the photo you wanted to see - a clear broadside late war 1945 view confirming no vertical extension.

Best wishes.
Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Nice work Dick, I agree.
In the hi res 1945 wharf shot, it could be my eyes, but it looks like there may be a second wire on the lead end of the insulator, 2 cables.
Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:33 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Perth_shipyard wrote:
Theres four cables just like when she had the goal
Post fitted. Warramunga and Arunta in dry dock 1946. Warramunga is in her post war RN light grey colour with extra long black tip on the funnel.



Perth, If by the destroyer "with extra long black tip on the funnel" you mean the destroyer on the left, that is Arunta.
It is pretty clear from the photo alongside in Japan delivering Admiral Fraser that there was only one aerial insulator that particular moment. Looking closely at the 1947 AC Green photo of Brett's, two of the 4 aerials fitted then go into one insulator so, for whatever reason, I think probably max two aerials at the time of the Japan photo.

Brett, I think the aerial spreader at the end of the war was as I drew it. At that time I think it did not have that central vertical element rising above the horizontal top of the A that is there in your 1947 AC Green photo. If it was there then it should show in the photo alongside in Japan delivering Admiral Fraser. I think that was probably fitted very soon after the end of the war, perhaps during the 1946 refit shown in Perth Shipyard's photo.
Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Nice detective work, Holmes....I mean, Brett!

:big_grin:
Post Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Yep, checked my records, and scoped the A frame.
Did not think to check on photos after 45, I was concentrating on her immediate aerial arrangement after Nov 44 to the end of the Pacific war, while still carrying her tripod mast, not after refit with the new lattice structure.

Here is a cropped shot of Warra, wearing pennant I.44, an A.C. Green photo dated 1947.
Without a full shot of her from Nov 44 to refit it must be accepted that this was the aerial arrangement, cheers guys


Attachments:
aerials 47.jpg
aerials 47.jpg [ 146.62 KiB | Viewed 494 times ]
Post Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Theres four cables just like when she had the goal
Post fitted. Warramunga and Arunta in dry dock 1946. Warramunga is in her post war RN light grey colour with extra long black tip on the funnel.

Image
Post Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:31 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Also forgot to ask, the shot appears to have one cable attached, maybe there are more unseen, do you know how many cables? thxs
Post Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:35 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks Dick, where did you get the info?
Post Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:32 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Warramunga's 1945 aerial spreader just forward of her quad pom pom, the top and part of the side of which is visible in the photo of her at Japan in 1945 above, was shaped like this:

Attachment:
Warramunga areial spreader late 1945.jpg
Warramunga areial spreader late 1945.jpg [ 45.6 KiB | Viewed 161 times ]


(Please excuse the crude drawing - it was like a capital A but with a horizontal top.)
Post Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
I think you'd find the bar is separate from the Pom Pom itself. They're definitely connections for the cables and would make sense I think.
Post Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:03 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks Perth, I have that photo in hi res, I had initially thought the bar to be part of the Pom Pom frame quite a while ago.
Perhaps that is a connection point? but it would possibly be in the way of the pom pom barrels when the gun was traversing?

Makes me wonder what the cables are on the port side with the spreader bars, makeshift clothes line, or makeshift aerial run?
There were 4 cable runs to the goal post originally, anyway the question is still open, cheers.
Post Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:03 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Goal post isn't here, but a small bar. You can see a connection for an aerial (cable) leading off this bar heading in the general direction of the main mast.

Image
It's dated 1945 in japan I think unless another photo comes out of a closet somewhere, this will be the clearest yet. Would love to see the contact sheet this picture came from though! :)

To answer the other question regarding australian flags, there's only one Australian National Flag.
Image
The important part here is that the national flag used since 1911 and current is the same and has a 7 point federation star. The big star under the Union Jack. And all stars of the southern cross are also 7 pointed stars apart from the smallest which is a 5 pointed star.

The Australian white ensign wasn't put into use until 1967 so you don't need to worry about it. Commissioned navy vessels of the RAN used the RN white ensign until this time from federation. The Australian red ensign is for use aboard merchant navy and private vessels registered in Australia. During ww2 both the British red ensign, Australian Red ensign and Australian Blue ensign where flown by the mercantile marine (this is far more complicated story than the white ensign)

The only other ensign is the light blue variant used by the air force known as the australian Air Force ensign. Any other flags are state or territory flags and the Aboriginal and Torres straight islander flags.
Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks Dav for bring the service article to attention, as I had not noticed anything untoward before in the shots, but, something very interesting in the photo of Warramunga`s hose team cooling down USS Brooks hull, Jan 45.

This shot appears to have been taken just aft of the rear funnel as that looks like the large ventilator head, 2 of which straddle the aft funnel, If you look closely you can make out a 40mm bofors in the starboard gun tube, it certainly is not an oerlikon.
No Goalpost mast is visible in the shot and no searchlight or secondary conning structure is evident, no question of censor here.

It is looking like Vic Cassells book is correct in reference to removal of the equipment in question, and my attached photos have not been doctored.
My original question, where were the aerial cables attached after removal of the goal post mast?
Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:45 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
http://www.navy.gov.au/hmas-warramunga-i
Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:48 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
Would like to think you are correct Cliffy about the censor but I can`t see any reason for censoring because it wars end, pic is not of the best quality, and as time goes by they get manipulated.

As I stated I did want to confirm this issue but the assoc did not respond, and these type of queries can only be truly confirmed by previous crew, the AWM are very vague with these issues, not much help at all and very often incorrect.
I have 2 shots of Warra for this exact period along with the large res shot at the wharf, and they appear to be very unique.
It was my intention to prepare a colour profile of Warra late 44 but could not proceed without definite confirmation.

The book `The Destroyers, their battles and badges`by Vic Cassells states on pg 184 that Lt commander John Alliston bypassed the red tape to have the bofors fitted, and definitely points out the removal of the secondary conning structure, it makes no mention of the goal post removal which is the clincher, but it too would have had to be relocated or removed. Could you imagine a 40mm bofor or Pom Pom shell hitting the mast upright in the heat of engagement, disaster.

If I was to build Warra at the end of 44 I would want absolute confirmation on this before proceeding, if you make a mistake you have wasted your time and are shark bait for the never endless supply of critics/rivot counters.
The shot is devoid of the searchlight platform also, and here is a second shot from slightly different angle.
If anyone else has a full broadside shot of Warra after Nov 44 I would love to see it.


Attachments:
wb.jpg
wb.jpg [ 196.14 KiB | Viewed 275 times ]
Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:13 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans  Reply with quote
So if the ships are depicted in WWII I'll need an RN white ensign AND an Australian flag then (and have them flying in the proper positions), correct? Standard blue ensign is the National Flag for this time period correct? A quick search highlighted how "varied" the Australian flag can be.

Brett - After looking at that photo you just posted I'm tending to think that the censor might have had a whirl with it. The forward mast in particular just plain looks weird. You can see the three legs come together and then there's nothing above it. Would make me want to think the censor nicked the radar(s) and the entire upper mast. Maybe that's where the goalpost went too?
Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:08 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group