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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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The boats indicated are another example of Trumpeter's patchy research. I know of no boats in the RN inventory which look like either of these; they appear to be approximations of a Kriegsmarine ship's boats! Add to that the lack of sheer for'd, the strange torpedo tube mounting, absence of boat davits, simplistic masthead RDF (not fitted on this build), and the very basic quadruple 0.5" mountings and one gets a below-average replica.
The boats indicated are another example of Trumpeter's patchy research. I know of no boats in the RN inventory which look like either of these; they appear to be approximations of a Kriegsmarine ship's boats! Add to that the lack of sheer for'd, the strange torpedo tube mounting, absence of boat davits, simplistic masthead RDF (not fitted on this build), and the very basic quadruple 0.5" mountings and one gets a below-average replica.
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:20 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Anyknow knows what kind of boat they are? Pretty sure they don't look like 25ft Fast Motor boat and 35ft Life Cutter or (FMB) Attachment:
Tribal Class Boat.JPG [ 79.99 KiB | Viewed 750 times ]
Anyknow knows what kind of boat they are?
Pretty sure they don't look like 25ft Fast Motor boat and 35ft Life Cutter or (FMB)
[attachment=0]Tribal Class Boat.JPG[/attachment]
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:38 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Thanks, we'll see what else might show up??
Thanks, we'll see what else might show up??
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:18 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Watching with interest, here is a 4" hoist.
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HOIST.jpg [ 181.44 KiB | Viewed 1012 times ]
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Watching with interest, here is a 4" hoist.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:46 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Anybody have a photo/image/ diagram of the ammo hoists just behind the 4.7 inch Y gun on the upper deck? Thanks. Waly Haynes
Anybody have a photo/image/ diagram of the ammo hoists just behind the 4.7 inch Y gun on the upper deck? Thanks. Waly Haynes
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:51 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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tjstoneman wrote: Zulu's splinter shields did not extend beyond the curved overhang of the for'd and after shelter decks - however, configurations differed between ships of the class; for example, Ashanti had splinter shields fore and aft of the curved sections - eg https://modelwork.pl/topic/40745-projek ... vy-na-102/Thank you for the additional information. Trumpeter's RN and RM ship qualities (released during 200x-201x) are not that good. This post does help a lot on the kit inaccuracies and provides a great inspiration, thank you everyone.
[quote="tjstoneman"]Zulu's splinter shields did not extend beyond the curved overhang of the for'd and after shelter decks - however, configurations differed between ships of the class; for example, Ashanti had splinter shields fore and aft of the curved sections - eg https://modelwork.pl/topic/40745-projekt-grupowy-royal-navy-na-102/[/quote]
Thank you for the additional information.
Trumpeter's RN and RM ship qualities (released during 200x-201x) are not that good. This post does help a lot on the kit inaccuracies and provides a great inspiration, thank you everyone.
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:19 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Zulu's splinter shields did not extend beyond the curved overhang of the for'd and after shelter decks - however, configurations differed between ships of the class; for example, Ashanti had splinter shields fore and aft of the curved sections - eg https://modelwork.pl/topic/40745-projek ... vy-na-102/
Zulu's splinter shields did not extend beyond the curved overhang of the for'd and after shelter decks - however, configurations differed between ships of the class; for example, Ashanti had splinter shields fore and aft of the curved sections - eg https://modelwork.pl/topic/40745-projekt-grupowy-royal-navy-na-102/
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:58 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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tjstoneman wrote: I've seen no photos or other evidence that ZULU ever wore a patterned camouflage scheme. A series of photos held by the Imperial War Museum ( http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=hms+zulu - ref number A6376 is probably the best) captioned as taken in the Atlantic on 17 November 1941 show the configuration clearly, including the short vertical polemast for the HF/DF aerial (the aerial itself is somewhat blurred, but there are other photos of this sort of aerial online). Despite what naval-history.net says, the weapon in the port bridge wing appears to be a single 2 pounder gun, not a 20mm Oerlikon, and the depth charge throwers are not on the quarterdeck, but have been moved down from the after shelter deck to upper deck level abreast the searchlight. Also shown are the splinter shields at the deckedge abreast the main armament and 4" HA mountings, and the RDF (radar) Type 286 aerial at the foremasthead, again not provided in the kit. Most of the additions are available in the White Ensign photoetch set (except for the splinter shields and 2 pounders) as more accurate representations than the Trumpeter versions. Found another inaccuracy in Trumpy's 1/700 Zulu, From the IWM photo collection, we can see that: Splinter shields for main armament and 4'' HA mounting are semi-circular, Trumpeter got it wrong. Attachment:
Zulu deck edge.JPG [ 34.56 KiB | Viewed 1244 times ]
Attachment:
Trumpy Kit.JPG [ 41.51 KiB | Viewed 1244 times ]
[quote="tjstoneman"]I've seen no photos or other evidence that ZULU ever wore a patterned camouflage scheme. A series of photos held by the Imperial War Museum (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=hms+zulu - ref number A6376 is probably the best) captioned as taken in the Atlantic on 17 November 1941 show the configuration clearly, including the short vertical polemast for the HF/DF aerial (the aerial itself is somewhat blurred, but there are other photos of this sort of aerial online). Despite what naval-history.net says, the weapon in the port bridge wing appears to be a single 2 pounder gun, not a 20mm Oerlikon, and the depth charge throwers are not on the quarterdeck, but have been moved down from the after shelter deck to upper deck level abreast the searchlight. Also shown are the splinter shields at the deckedge abreast the main armament and 4" HA mountings, and the RDF (radar) Type 286 aerial at the foremasthead, again not provided in the kit. Most of the additions are available in the White Ensign photoetch set (except for the splinter shields and 2 pounders) as more accurate representations than the Trumpeter versions.[/quote]
Found another inaccuracy in Trumpy's 1/700 Zulu,
From the IWM photo collection, we can see that:
Splinter shields for main armament and 4'' HA mounting are semi-circular, Trumpeter got it wrong.
[attachment=1]Zulu deck edge.JPG[/attachment] [attachment=0]Trumpy Kit.JPG[/attachment]
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:56 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Thank you, Dick, Looks like I'm getting the paint brush out again. Tom
Thank you, Dick, Looks like I'm getting the paint brush out again. Tom
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:51 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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When built, all the RN Tribals had latex deck coverings specified for specific areas such as those walkways. Ship by ship these coverings varied between Semtex, Aranbee or Supertex depending upon which manufacturers' product was allocated to which ship.
When built, all the RN Tribals had latex deck coverings specified for specific areas such as those walkways. Ship by ship these coverings varied between Semtex, Aranbee or Supertex depending upon which manufacturers' product was allocated to which ship.
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:47 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Did the Tribals have any covering (corticene, semtex etc.) on their main decks? The '350 Trumpy kit has a moulded 'walkway' from the f'c'stle break past the funnels and TT to the after superstructure either side. Tom
Did the Tribals have any covering (corticene, semtex etc.) on their main decks? The '350 Trumpy kit has a moulded 'walkway' from the f'c'stle break past the funnels and TT to the after superstructure either side. Tom
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:50 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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I'm about to order some micromaster 3D printed boats to replace the ones on my Tribal class build. Am I right in thinking the boats carried were as follows...
25ft fast motor boat 25ft motor cutter 27ft whaler 14ft sailing dinghy
Thanks in advance for any help with this matter. Ta
I'm about to order some micromaster 3D printed boats to replace the ones on my Tribal class build. Am I right in thinking the boats carried were as follows...
25ft fast motor boat 25ft motor cutter 27ft whaler 14ft sailing dinghy
Thanks in advance for any help with this matter. Ta
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:42 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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I am fairly sure that I have read in some document/Fleet Order that the extra draught marks were to assist damage control but one senses that they were perhaps being a tad over-optimistic if they thought things would be salvable if the water had reached forecastle deck level! The October 1942 edition of CB 0815B (the half yearly armament return), corrected to 30th September 1942, gives Eskimo 6 x 4.7”, 2 x 4” HA, 1 x 2 pr pom-pom 4 barrel, 2 x .5” M MG, 2 x Lewis and 4 x Oerlikon. As Brett has highlighted, two of the Oerlikons were on the wings of the signal deck. There is a photo of Eskimo taken in July 1943 during Husky showing a third was centrally on the light AA platform between the funnels (ie between the quad 0.5”s) and a fourth right aft on the quarterdeck. I have a (private) 1942 photo taken onboard Eskimo showing that this was offset to starboard so as to avoid the centerline depth charge rail. Attachment:
Eskimo July 1943 Husky.jpg [ 148.08 KiB | Viewed 11343 times ]
There is a well-known photo of Eskimo taken during PQ18 (Sept 1942). The silhouette of the angled shield of the quarterdeck Oerlikon can be discerned (the gun is aiming broadside to port). The Oerlikon on the light AA platform cannot be made out but there is a distinct gathering centrally there where it should be between the quad 0.5”s. Maybe someone has a clearer photo? Attachment:
Eskimo Sept 1942 PQ18.jpg [ 136.57 KiB | Viewed 11343 times ]
I am fairly sure that I have read in some document/Fleet Order that the extra draught marks were to assist damage control but one senses that they were perhaps being a tad over-optimistic if they thought things would be salvable if the water had reached forecastle deck level!
The October 1942 edition of CB 0815B (the half yearly armament return), corrected to 30th September 1942, gives Eskimo 6 x 4.7”, 2 x 4” HA, 1 x 2 pr pom-pom 4 barrel, 2 x .5” M MG, 2 x Lewis and 4 x Oerlikon.
As Brett has highlighted, two of the Oerlikons were on the wings of the signal deck. There is a photo of Eskimo taken in July 1943 during Husky showing a third was centrally on the light AA platform between the funnels (ie between the quad 0.5”s) and a fourth right aft on the quarterdeck. I have a (private) 1942 photo taken onboard Eskimo showing that this was offset to starboard so as to avoid the centerline depth charge rail.[attachment=0]Eskimo July 1943 Husky.jpg[/attachment]
There is a well-known photo of Eskimo taken during PQ18 (Sept 1942). The silhouette of the angled shield of the quarterdeck Oerlikon can be discerned (the gun is aiming broadside to port). The Oerlikon on the light AA platform cannot be made out but there is a distinct gathering centrally there where it should be between the quad 0.5”s. Maybe someone has a clearer photo?[attachment=1]Eskimo Sept 1942 PQ18.jpg[/attachment]
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Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:26 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Brett Morrow wrote: A good question concerning draft gauge extension Darren, another possibility could have been to gauge settlement depth after a torpedo hit. Images of Canadians late war show the depth gauge at launch extended the full height of hull. Torpedo hit is an interesting thought. I checked my photos and of the 8 RCN ships, 2 of them, Micmac and Nootka, had the bow draft marks up to the deck level at launch. Interestingly, they were launched in 43 and 44, the same years the other ships afloat showed the markings. Definitely a late war thing.
[quote="Brett Morrow"]A good question concerning draft gauge extension Darren, another possibility could have been to gauge settlement depth after a torpedo hit. Images of Canadians late war show the depth gauge at launch extended the full height of hull.[/quote]
Torpedo hit is an interesting thought.
I checked my photos and of the 8 RCN ships, 2 of them, Micmac and Nootka, had the bow draft marks up to the deck level at launch. Interestingly, they were launched in 43 and 44, the same years the other ships afloat showed the markings. Definitely a late war thing.
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:54 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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A good question concerning draft gauge extension Darren, another possibility could have been to gauge settlement depth after a torpedo hit. Images of Canadians late war show the depth gauge at launch extended the full height of hull.
As to the question of Eskimo close range weapons fit in Sept 42 and convoy PQ18, it would appear that the 20mm oerlikons referred to were single MK II fitted in the flagdeck wings, replacing the twin lewis. At that time her quad Vickers appear to still have been in place on the midship gun platform.
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ESKIMO, mid 42.jpg [ 150.73 KiB | Viewed 11370 times ]
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A good question concerning draft gauge extension Darren, another possibility could have been to gauge settlement depth after a torpedo hit. Images of Canadians late war show the depth gauge at launch extended the full height of hull.
As to the question of Eskimo close range weapons fit in Sept 42 and convoy PQ18, it would appear that the 20mm oerlikons referred to were single MK II fitted in the flagdeck wings, replacing the twin lewis. At that time her quad Vickers appear to still have been in place on the midship gun platform.
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:43 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Guest wrote: Thanks for your replies, that's really a kind of info which is useful to me. The pictures are also great. Was this a common practice for Royal Navy or just Tribals feature to use painted metal numerals on the hull? Yes, many Navies weld the numbers on. However, common doesn't mean absolutely every time. Modern Navies still weld numbers on. An interesting example is the USN Arleigh Burke class. The Stern Numbers are welded, but the Bow numbers are not. I've never been able to figure out why someone would paint the depth numbers all the way to deck level. The only thing I can think of is a Sailor who either didn't understand instructions or didn't care. One other possibility might be easy reference during an inclination test, where they put weights on board to make the ship tilt sideways to determine if the stability is correct. I suspect variations between ships might be due to refits where the overall tonnage of the ship changes due to added equipment. This would change the waterline.
[quote="Guest"]Thanks for your replies, that's really a kind of info which is useful to me. The pictures are also great. Was this a common practice for Royal Navy or just Tribals feature to use painted metal numerals on the hull?[/quote]
Yes, many Navies weld the numbers on. However, common doesn't mean absolutely every time. Modern Navies still weld numbers on. An interesting example is the USN Arleigh Burke class. The Stern Numbers are welded, but the Bow numbers are not.
I've never been able to figure out why someone would paint the depth numbers all the way to deck level. The only thing I can think of is a Sailor who either didn't understand instructions or didn't care. One other possibility might be easy reference during an inclination test, where they put weights on board to make the ship tilt sideways to determine if the stability is correct.
I suspect variations between ships might be due to refits where the overall tonnage of the ship changes due to added equipment. This would change the waterline.
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:13 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Thanks for your replies, that's really a kind of info which is useful to me. The pictures are also great. Was this a common practice for Royal Navy or just Tribals feature to use painted metal numerals on the hull? Now one extra question: does anybody know of what did AA armament of HMS Eskimo during escorting PQ-18 in 1942 consist? http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono ... Eskimo.htm - It is simply said that " 20mm Oerlikon weapons were added to improve Close Range aircraft defence", but no numbers or positions are mentioned. So help would be really appreciated
Thanks for your replies, that's really a kind of info which is useful to me. The pictures are also great. Was this a common practice for Royal Navy or just Tribals feature to use painted metal numerals on the hull?
Now one extra question: does anybody know of what did AA armament of HMS Eskimo during escorting PQ-18 in 1942 consist? http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-10DD-34Tribal-HMS_Eskimo.htm - It is simply said that " 20mm Oerlikon weapons were added to improve Close Range aircraft defence", but no numbers or positions are mentioned. So help would be really appreciated
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:18 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Excellent info Dick!
Excellent info Dick!
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:04 pm |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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Underlining how things varied and the need to check things ship by ship, I have this photo of the draught marks on Somali in May 1940 showing that: 1. Her draught marks were simply painted directly onto the hull, not metal numerals welded onto the hull and then painted. 2. The lowest number (then at least) was V not III. Attachment:
Somali May 1940 a.jpg [ 206.41 KiB | Viewed 11426 times ]
However those on Haida appear to have been the welded on type (parts of which have fallen off over the years). Attachment:
Haida today - Copy.jpg [ 261.96 KiB | Viewed 11426 times ]
Underlining how things varied and the need to check things ship by ship, I have this photo of the draught marks on Somali in May 1940 showing that:
1. Her draught marks were simply painted directly onto the hull, not metal numerals welded onto the hull and then painted.
2. The lowest number (then at least) was V not III. [attachment=1]Somali May 1940 a.jpg[/attachment]
However those on Haida appear to have been the welded on type (parts of which have fallen off over the years).[attachment=0]Haida today - Copy.jpg[/attachment]
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 am |
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Re: Calling all Royal Navy Tribal class fans |
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