The Ship Model Forum

Hi Tracy & Tom ,

Thanks to you both for the links and info . Probably looking at doing Albacore late in her career so i guess i'll go with the 1943 model . Want to depict her at the time that she sank the IJN Carrier Taiho ! Will have to look up some more pics to be sure .


Thanks
JOEY

Tracy is correct; these submarines were constantly refitted and modified during the course of the war. Rather drastic changes were made to the conning tower fairwaters and gun outfitting. You need to find photos of the specific time period you are interested in, and then decide which kit is closest to that configuration.

Compare Albacore's fairwater here:
[url]http://navsource.org/archives/08/206/0821804.jpg[/url] in 1942
and here: [url]http://navsource.org/archives/08/218/0821828.jpg[/url] in 1944

What month / year? There is also AFV Club GATO Class Submarine 1943 #73511
This 1943 kit appears to match the gross details for "as lost" given a quick look over her Navsourc epage:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08218.htm

But the 1942 and 1941 kits may work well for "as launched" and early war patrols. Compare details of the kits to the navsource photos.

Hi Guys ,

Would like to do a model of the USS Albacore SS-218 !

Which of the 1/350 AFV Club kits would be appropriate to model her ?


1/350 AFV Club GATO Class Submarine 1941 #73509 or 1/350 AFV Club GATO Class Submarine 1942 #73510



Thanks
JOEY

Hey guys.I just picked up Trumpeters 1944 Gato.I have no plans to super-detail it,but would like to enhance what's in the box.Got any recommendations?

Thanks

Ed

Does anybody know if Riich is planning on releasing a later war version of their 1/200 Gato? Their only release so far is an early 1942 version.

May I suggest the following excellent reference documents on the changes made in the [i]Gato, Balao[/i] & [i]Tench[/i] class fleet submarines:
[url]http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/10idx.htm[/url]

"It would take some fairly decent scratchbuilding skills but to me it doesn't appear like it would be too difficult to add the prewar shape onto Revell fairwater with evergreen strips and plastic sheet...basically just adding what was cut off on the originals". The stock Cobia fairwater was NOT the as built fairwaters of earlier boats that your thinking it to be. Cobias fairwater was never cut up. The Cobia fairwater is what it was LAUNCHED with. The early Gato's as built enclosed tower i.e Grunion were much LARGER then the revell Cobia fairwater. Grunion was a commercial yard EB, Government yard fairwaters are even more different then revels. . Anything can be done with a lot of work , but It requires more then "basically just adding what was cut off on the originals" Since it is not one of those originals.

[quote="smokey2"]hello everyone. Need some help from the experts on Gato Subs. I have one of Revell's 1/72 Gato subs and was looking on the internet for history of some of the subs. My question is do I have to stick with the four subs that the decals come with the kit, Flasher, Cobia, Growler and Silversides. I ran across the history of the Grunion and was wondering is it possible to build it out of the revell kit? I do have White Ensign Models P.E. along with Eduard P.E. What else would a person need to do the Grunion? Dan[/quote]

[quote="smokey2"]Thanks Tracy. I did finally get to surf navsoucre and found a lot of info. I have also been following Channell build and looking to do most of the mods he has done. I did get a email back from Mario and in order to do the Grunion, to use his style 3 early as built set and will also have to scratch build the stern plane guard. Maybe for my first Gato sub will stick to one of the ones that can be built straight from the kit with PE on it, and my second Gato do it into the Grunion. Also on the Grunion since it was a very early sub probably have teak deck instead of the metal deck. Dan[/quote]

It would take some fairly decent scratchbuilding skills but to me it doesn't appear like it would be too difficult to add the prewar shape onto Revell fairwater with evergreen strips and plastic sheet...basically just adding what was cut off on the originals. The aftermarket fairwaters are nice, but they cost just as much as the entire Revell kit! :big_eyes: You would also have to delete/move the storage lockers around as well, which wouldn't be too difficult. Revell's fairwater is pretty good quality too.

But if you do the pressure hull/scratchbuilt "see through" deck get ready to pull your hair out! I decided to stick with the Cobia because I (correctly) guessed doing such a mammoth job would quickly drain my patience and willpower, leaving none left to go crazy on a heavily modded fairwater. I didn't go into too much detail on my build log but it was a serious challenge to get everything straight and sturdy on such a big boat with the kit engineering all cut out, and I'm slowly resigning myself to the fact that all my work is gonna be barely visible anyway (even though it looks pretty cool with no deck on it now!)

[img]http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/selvatico/CIMG3990.jpg[/img]

One idea would be to compromise....Perhaps cutting out the deck support trusses from the kit deck (like I did, and also what turned out to be the "easy" part of the mod) but leave everything else underneath as-is and just painting it black (saving you the structural work that nobody will see anyway). Then do the entire deck in evergreen strips to represent the teak (a massive job all by itself) and mod the fairwater to it's prewar shape.

Damn, now I want to do it! :heh:

Thanks Tracy. I did finally get to surf navsoucre and found a lot of info. I have also been following Channell build and looking to do most of the mods he has done. I did get a email back from Mario and in order to do the Grunion, to use his style 3 early as built set and will also have to scratch build the stern plane guard. Maybe for my first Gato sub will stick to one of the ones that can be built straight from the kit with PE on it, and my second Gato do it into the Grunion. Also on the Grunion since it was a very early sub probably have teak deck instead of the metal deck. Dan

It is possible to build other submarines from the kit, but some work will need to be done for most of them due to the changes that happened both over time and due to different production yards. USS Grunion was lost early in the war, so she lacked many of the changes the kit reflects. Unfortunately, the main site I start out on for looking up photos (Navsource.org) is currently down, so I can't speak for certain, but you will most likely need a different sail, as the earlier fits had a taller sail with more protection that was later cut down to reduce the silhouette. You might check some of the offerings at [url=http://ibs.eastcoastarmory.com/Csets2.htm]Iron Bottom Sound[/url].

hello everyone. Need some help from the experts on Gato Subs. I have one of Revell's 1/72 Gato subs and was looking on the internet for history of some of the subs. My question is do I have to stick with the four subs that the decals come with the kit, Flasher, Cobia, Growler and Silversides. I ran across the history of the Grunion and was wondering is it possible to build it out of the revell kit? I do have White Ensign Models P.E. along with Eduard P.E. What else would a person need to do the Grunion? Dan

I found yet another interesting resource:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/WDR/WDR58/index.html#contents1

This a report on submarine damage from WW2. It's an interesting read on it's own, but it also contains many great pictures showing battle damage and what's in between the deck and pressure hull on Gato and Balao boats.

And another homemade video walkthrough of the Silversides that I found on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2DGb5-YaMY

[quote="Tracy White"]You'll see oil canning on surfaces that have overpressure... this can be caused by waves or depth charges. The fairings above the pressure hull were thinner and more susceptible to it, so I'd imaging that's why you see it on the bow and sides more.[/quote]

Makes sense. I've found some better pics of the USS Drum and see very slight oilcanning down the length of the hull too.

http://www.drum228.org/restoration.html

I think I'm gonna set myself up for some good "swearing time" with this build. :cool_2:

And the planning stage continues...

You'll see oil canning on surfaces that have overpressure... this can be caused by waves or depth charges. The fairings above the pressure hull were thinner and more susceptible to it, so I'd imaging that's why you see it on the bow and sides more.

I need some help!!! :puppy_eyes:

I have a question on "oil canning" on the Gatos... Am I right to assume it was mostly a problem on the exterior plating above the pressure hull only? I'm having a rough time finding pics of a "well worn" gato below the waterline... all I'm really finding are photos of the USS Drum museum and I don't see any canning below the waterline.

U boats seemed to get plenty of oil-canning down their entire hull... was it the same for gatos, or were U.S. boats more resilient to it?

for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Drum_SS-228_in_Mobile.jpg

Just thought I'd share... found this site while searching for inspiration:

http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/USSCod/index.htm

It's a superdetailer's dream... well... apart from going there in person anyway (it's a [i]long[/i] way from Utah though).There lots of great quality, highly detailed close up shots of the USS Cod. :woo_hoo:

Classic Warships #28 Gato Type Fleet Submarines
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/images/CW28_gato.jpg
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/CW_publishing.htm

Well, this project is a go! just ordered a Gato and the Eduard "big ed" PE set.

I just need to decide [i]which[/i] boat to build now... I'm going to try to scratchbuild the top of the pressure hull underneath the deck and probably hand-build the planking with styrene strips so it will look right... I've never seen a Gato in person, but I found a couple videos of the Cod on Youtube and was surprised to see how "see-through" the decks on those boats really are! I want to exactly replicate the conning tower on the boat I decide to do too... In short, this will be my first foray into extensive scratchbuilding and I imagine it will keep me busy for a long time!

If anyone know of any good resources to help that haven't already been mentioned I'd be most appreciative! :woo_hoo:

[quote="Mario"]I am having problem this morning logging on to navsource. I cannot log to you link. If you want use the stock Cobia for a latter cut down Gatos, you can. Leave the height of the bridge alone,There is no problem in the height. You only need the cut down the shield. Also keep away from Govt yard boats, There towers are more different then the stock revell. Stay in EB and Manitowac boats you will be fine. The problem that you will encounter is the aft of the fairwater. The stock Revell has a round aft , some round but some boats it will be pointy and some blunt. I have the gizmos to change the aft from round to pointy if needed. Here are links I did for USS Puffer were I cut the tower down and blunted the back of the fairwater. I hope this info helps you on way. Mario

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/ss/ss-268/72-mg/mg-index.html
http://ibs.eastcoastarmory.com/gallery.htm[/quote]

Thanks! your USS Puffer is the Mod 4a that I was talking about.