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Topic review - Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Vepr157 wrote:
I typically use a mixture of bright red with bit of rust or brown. When the red antifouling is freshly applied, it's intensely red, but over time it gets toned down to a slightly darker and browner color.

Jacob


G'day Jacob,

Thanks very much,

cheers,

Pappy
Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:44 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
I typically use a mixture of bright red with bit of rust or brown. When the red antifouling is freshly applied, it's intensely red, but over time it gets toned down to a slightly darker and browner color.

Jacob
Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:21 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
G'dsy Maartin and Justin,

Thanks very much for the great info. I am definitely going for an in service look and will be using the demarcation as suggested by Justin but i like the idea of a purple-ish boot topping. Incidentally, what would you reccomend for the red colur, it is a little closer to orange than a deep red and alittle hard to nail down?

cheers,

Pappy
Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Pappy wrote:
G'day again,

I am getting to the paointing stage for my USS Kamehameha (BF Class) and I have doubts about the painting guide in the Mikro Mir instructions. The red oxide demarcation is depicted as halfway up the hull sides and level with the aft horizontal dive planes, but images in this thread show that the red oxide was extended higher up the hull sides, basically level with the top of the bottom section of the upper rudder if that makes sense?

Secondly, what colour should the screw be? I am thinking a goldish colour but short of brass

cheers,

Pappy


It depends how you want to depict the submarine. If you want to depict her in active service, the red antifouling paint goes halfway up the side, level with the main axis of the hull (thus level with the stern stabilizers/planes), like you described. Red paint only extended up to the waterline when the submarine was launched (some subs were launched this way, some weren't). Sometimes after an overhaul, the area between the waterline and the red paint on the lower half of the hull was painted with a mixture of black and red antifouling paint, which is sort of a dark maroon. See this photo of the Barbel:

http://navsource.org/archives/08/580/0858009.jpg

But if you're going to be depicting her in active service, the bottom half should be red and the top half should be black. I also like to make the areas on the bow where there are an acoustic windows for sonar a lighter shade than the main hull colors, but that's up to your personal preference.

As for the propeller, it was made of manganese bronze, which tarnishes to a dull yellowy-orange metallic color. But if it's fresh a brass or gold-colored paint would do just fine.

Jacob
Post Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Pappy wrote:
G'day again,

I am getting to the paointing stage for my USS Kamehameha (BF Class) and I have doubts about the painting guide in the Mikro Mir instructions. The red oxide demarcation is depicted as halfway up the hull sides and level with the aft horizontal dive planes, but images in this thread show that the red oxide was extended higher up the hull sides, basically level with the top of the bottom section of the upper rudder if that makes sense?

Secondly, what colour should the screw be? I am thinking a goldish colour but short of brass

cheers,

Pappy

Hi Pappy,

Maybe take good look at the previous post of Vepr: note that the waterline is at the 29 ft mark on the vertical rudder. That's the top of the boot topping or the dark grey band. The boot topping itself is six feet high at most, so the top of the anti fouling (what you like to call oxide red which it isn't) is at the 23 feet mark on the rudder. That's still above the end plates on the dive planes.
Next thing: take another close look at the water line: it's not parallel to the axis of the cylindrical hull, but running lower to the right of the image. Meaning: the hull is not horizontal in the water, but lying deeper at the stern then at the bow. So to be accurate you have to look also at bow pictures, and note that the waterline lies lower on the hull sides then at the stern!
Post Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:33 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
G'day again,

I am getting to the paointing stage for my USS Kamehameha (BF Class) and I have doubts about the painting guide in the Mikro Mir instructions. The red oxide demarcation is depicted as halfway up the hull sides and level with the aft horizontal dive planes, but images in this thread show that the red oxide was extended higher up the hull sides, basically level with the top of the bottom section of the upper rudder if that makes sense?

Secondly, what colour should the screw be? I am thinking a goldish colour but short of brass

cheers,

Pappy
Post Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:50 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Here are some drawings that might help. To give you some dimensions to scale these drawings, the distance between the main axis and the baseline in the profile view is 16'6" and the total breadth of the stern planes is 40'4".

Image
Image

Jacob
Post Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
So, then I will scratch those endplates myself, documentation on the Franklin class was passed in this thread earlier on.


Here some pics in the raw form, so you can see well what I did. Still some sanding to be done when all cement is dry.

It was necessary to modify the aft diving planes to a great extend, as these appeared incorrect in the first place. Also for any of the 609 or 616 boats that is. The only difference is the wider section where the endplates are based on. Some homework to do on my Lafayette and Ethan Allen models!
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G'day All,

I have the Mikro Mir 1/350 USS Kamehameha kit with the twin Dry Deck Shelters (DDS).

I want to correct the aft control surfaces. I have read through this thread and if I understand correctly, the USS Kamehameha was a Ben Franklin (640) class so it should also have the end plates. My question is, what would the dimensions of the endplates be in 1/350? Martin's excellent work has shown how to correct the missing end-plates, but does not include their dimensions,

cheers,

Pappy
Post Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 5:48 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Ouch.
Post Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
The STASS (Submarine Towed Array Sonar System) installed aboard the 598 class contained a hinged stub cable storage compartment located on the starboard stern plane stabilizer that contained enough cable to reach topside with a couple of figure 8 turns thrown in for good measure. A day before we would leave for patrol, divers would remove the cable and lay it into the tow point before passing a line topside for us to haul the rest of it on deck. When we got outside Guam's Apra harbor, a Mike boat (a repurposed WWI landing craft) with the array on a reel would come alongside and we would pass the stub cable over to them. They connected it to the array and reduced speed to trail the array behind us away from the screw, far enough away to prevent fouling.

When we left Pearl Harbor for the final time to transit to the West coast for eventual de-activation (Oct '79) we prepared to pull the stub cable topside. The diver left too much slack in the cable and when we spun the shaft (the shaft seals are tightened import and loosened when underway, so the shaft has to rotate occasionally to maintain the seal) the Fickle Finger of Fate intervened. Anyway, the second pic of me displaying the result is priceless. Our CO was always a screamer, known for his epic meltdowns, and this initiated yet another. For us, it was just one less piece of equipment to monitor as we headed to San Diego. He blamed us for the diver's mistake and made our lives (extra) hellish for the entire transit.

The array was from the BQR-15, which in later boats was equipped with an onboard storage and handling system. For the 598's, the channel amplifier was the BQR-25, and the display processor was the BQR-23. I think there were something like 20 beamformed, waterfall narrowband channels to monitor and only four could be displayed on the screen at once. The Sonar Supervisor (sitting in the back of the shack) would rotate a dial and the channels would cycle on and off the screen the screen. During operation, it was sensitive enough to pick up the turbine signatures of high-flying commercial aircraft for short periods of time. The CO hated to be underway without it.

San Diego-based, Spectral Dynamics built the BQR-23, based on their proven BQR-20, 20A, and 22 series spectrum analyzers. They all stood about five feet high and were divided into function-specific rack-mounted, slide-out units. None were light. Unit 4 was the monitor - an 18" monochrome green screen CRT. We had one fail on a Seawolf mission with no spares. The BQR-22 was a dual-channel spectrum analyzer that we relied on to analyze our primary sonar acoustic data. One of the spooks heard about our problems and brought us a dual-channel spectrum analyzer that fit in the cavity unit 4 occupied. Not only was it small, it had more capability! They got the money for fancy equipment and we didn't.

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Post Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:41 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Even though there is no fairing, MikroMir kindly includes the hump as a seperate piece.

Image
Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:52 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Excellent! Those are exactly what I was looking for.
Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:56 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
A towed array on a Franklin class? I honestly never heard of that! Only on the SSNs I believe. Or have I missed something?


Yep, pretty much all of the Polaris SSBNs had towed arrays. The 598-class SSBNs just had a tow point on their starboard stabilizer for a clip-on STASS towed array:

Image

The 608 and 616 classes (and the 640 class, if you want to consider them as a separate class) probably initially got similar tow points, which is what I think this photo of the Henry Clay shows:

Image

They subsequently got reelable BQR-15 towed arrays. The drums that stored the cable were inside a hump on the starboard side of the turtleback:

Image

The array was stored in a fairing that went to the starboard stabilizer:

Image

Image

This photo of the Will Rogers and a drawing I have of the Francis Scott Key suggest that there was an alternate arrangement where the towed array fairing took a more direct route to the stabilizer like the tubes on the 594 and 637-class SSNs:

Image

Here is a photo showing three 640-class SSBNs and one 608 class, all with BQR-15s:

Image
Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 10:39 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
maccrage wrote:
Does anyone have a good image or drawing of the towed array fairing on the Franklin class? I want to do a late fit boat. Thanks to Maarten's posts, I already know about the control surface modifications I need to make.

Here is Von Steuben with Pogy after primering.
Image


A towed array on a Franklin class? I honestly never heard of that! Only on the SSNs I believe. Or have I missed something?
Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 2:46 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Does anyone have a good image or drawing of the towed array fairing on the Franklin class? I want to do a late fit boat. Thanks to Maarten's posts, I already know about the control surface modifications I need to make.

Here is Von Steuben with Pogy after primering.
Image
Post Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
I agree with Martin on the Mikro-Mir kit (the Yankee Model Works kit, if you can find it, is less detailed). Blue Ridge sells the Lafayette and the Webster, so those would be suitable as a Madison (although the Webster would have to be modified to eliminate her unusual "mini-sail"). Apart from the usual ship-to-ship differences, they were identical to the Lafayettes except for the missiles initially fitted, as Martin said.

Jacob
Post Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: James Madison class  Reply with quote
SSN 575 STS wrote:
Looking for a James Madison class model in 1/350 scale. Can anyone point me in the right direction.


Yankee Modelworks made a 1/350 resin kit (#35016) of the USS Daniel Boone, a Lafayette Class sub. According to Wiki, the differences between Lafayette and Madison class subs was internal.

MicroMir makes a 1/350 Daniel Webster. There are several currently available on eBay. FreeTime Hobbies also has it listed as in stock.
Post Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:30 pm
  Post subject:  James Madison class  Reply with quote
Looking for a James Madison class model in 1/350 scale. Can anyone point me in the right direction.
Post Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Also, before anyone says it's an acoustic intercept sonar like an early WLR-9, here's a picture of an Ethan Allen with both a DUUG-1 active intercept dome on the bow and the mystery dome on the stern:

http://navsource.org/archives/08/609/0861001.jpg

The stern dome could indeed be an acoustic intercept sonar, but I think there's a slight possibility it might be part of a short-lived BQG-1 PUFFS array.

Jacob
Post Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling All "41 for Freedom" SSBN Fans  Reply with quote
Does anyone know what the small sonar dome/fin between the rudder and superstructure is?

http://navsource.org/archives/08/609/0861117.jpg

I think it was only on the Ethan Allens, and it seems to been installed when the submarine was commissioned, but taken off at a later date.

Could it possibly be part of a BQG-1 PUFFS array? Here is are preliminary designs of the Ethan Allen from the National Archives I recently found (ignore the hex wrench; I was using it as a weight):

https://i.imgur.com/q5aG7iH.jpg

Note the four PUFFS arrays: two fixed and two retractable. The Thresher initially had a similar four-part array designated BQG-1, which was later replaced by a larger array (two arrays in the sonar dome, two in the amidships ballast tanks, and two in fins on the stern stabilizers) designated BQG-2. Obviously the configuration of PUFFS shown in the preliminary Ethan Allen design didn't make it to the final boats, but I wonder if a different arrangement did.

Jacob
Post Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:32 am

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