The Ship Model Forum

I agree with Martin on the Mikro-Mir kit (the Yankee Model Works kit, if you can find it, is less detailed). Blue Ridge sells the Lafayette and the Webster, so those would be suitable as a Madison (although the Webster would have to be modified to eliminate her unusual "mini-sail"). Apart from the usual ship-to-ship differences, they were identical to the Lafayettes except for the missiles initially fitted, as Martin said.

Jacob

[quote="SSN 575 STS"]Looking for a James Madison class model in 1/350 scale. Can anyone point me in the right direction.[/quote]

Yankee Modelworks made a 1/350 resin kit (#35016) of the USS Daniel Boone, a Lafayette Class sub. According to Wiki, the differences between Lafayette and Madison class subs was internal.

MicroMir makes a 1/350 Daniel Webster. There are several currently available on eBay. FreeTime Hobbies also has it listed as in stock.

Looking for a James Madison class model in 1/350 scale. Can anyone point me in the right direction.

Also, before anyone says it's an acoustic intercept sonar like an early WLR-9, here's a picture of an Ethan Allen with both a DUUG-1 active intercept dome on the bow and the mystery dome on the stern:

[url]http://navsource.org/archives/08/609/0861001.jpg[/url]

The stern dome could indeed be an acoustic intercept sonar, but I think there's a slight possibility it might be part of a short-lived BQG-1 PUFFS array.

Jacob

Does anyone know what the small sonar dome/fin between the rudder and superstructure is?

[url]http://navsource.org/archives/08/609/0861117.jpg[/url]

I think it was only on the Ethan Allens, and it seems to been installed when the submarine was commissioned, but taken off at a later date.

Could it possibly be part of a BQG-1 PUFFS array? Here is are preliminary designs of the Ethan Allen from the National Archives I recently found (ignore the hex wrench; I was using it as a weight):

[url]https://i.imgur.com/q5aG7iH.jpg[/url]

Note the four PUFFS arrays: two fixed and two retractable. The [i]Thresher[/i] initially had a similar four-part array designated BQG-1, which was later replaced by a larger array (two arrays in the sonar dome, two in the amidships ballast tanks, and two in fins on the stern stabilizers) designated BQG-2. Obviously the configuration of PUFFS shown in the preliminary Ethan Allen design didn't make it to the final boats, but I wonder if a different arrangement did.

Jacob

[quote="Tom Dougherty"][quote]I reported aboard the Ethan Allen SSBN 608 Feb 1972 in Bremerton Yard during a Refueling/Refit. I believe that was the A3 upgrade for her as well, however I think she was already carrying the 7 blade by then.
[/quote]

More likely in 1972 that it was the Poseidon C-3 upgrade, with MIRV capability. The Polaris A-3 went into service in 1964.

[/quote]

Not so. The ten boats in our squadron (SUBRON 15) comprising the 598 and 608 A-3 boats had tubes that were too small for the SLBMs that followed Polaris. (The 608s were the first boomers built from the keel-up for that purpose; the 598s were re-configured Skipjacks with a rocket room welded between the Ops and Reactor compartments.) It made sense (logistically) to group the A-3 boats together in one place.

During their final patrols, (most of which were in/out of Polaris Site 3 in Guam) our tender was the ancient Proteus, which was only equipped to handle the A-3. When SALT 1 was ratified, (which reduced the number of allowable SLBMs) it was decided to pull the less-capable A-3s out of service first, since the Tridents were being built and additional missiles would breech the treaty. The 598s with the least amount of EFPH (Equiv Full Power Hours) reactor fuel left had their patrol lengths reduced to six weeks, then changed homeports to Pearl as Slow Retreats (vs/ Fast Attacks) basically submarines of opportunity and were sent to Bangor for missile offload prior to eventual scrapping, starting with the Theodore Roosevelt. Trivia: The Theodore Roosevelt submitted the very first work request (what was called a 2-Kilo, for the name of the form) to the newly-established Trident Refit facility. It was titled something generic like, "Fix Boat" in Nov 1979. The framed 2-kilo was prominently displayed in the main Production Conference room on the Delta pier.

The Poseidon boats quickly followed, shedding their missiles as the Tridents quickly left EB and came online.

So now you know - from one who was there.

I have been talking with Boris at Polar Bear, and he has agreed to develop a model of the Ethan Allen this summer. Jim Margerum has also been discussing this with him as well, and has been sending drawings and photos. I'm sure that Boris can use anything that anyone has that can help show details.

Bill Morrison

P.S. Boris is also working on USS Seawolf (SSN 575).

I believe so.

[quote="Captain Morgan"]The upper rudders were also taller on the 616 boats. Best seen with a picture of a 640 and 616 moored side by side at a tender.[/quote]
Interesting, does the rudder height have anything to do with the two different styles of rudder (split vs. all-moving)?

Jacob

[quote="Vepr157"]Here is a comparison between the Ethan Allen class and Lafayette class:

[url]https://i.imgur.com/Lnzpo8O.png[/url]

These elevation views are from the Piping TABs for SSBN 611 and SSBN 654-659. I don't know if this has been mentioned previously in this thread, but all Polaris boats after the Lafayette class were dimensionally identical. Some like to break the Lafayette class up into the James Madison and Benjamin Franklin classes, but these are probably best classified as sub-classes or flights of the Lafayette class. The only major external difference I can think of is that the fairwater planes for the Franklins are about halfway down the sail, whereas the earlier boats had them higher up. Also, some of the later boats had end plates on their horizontal stabilizers, but I believe this was retrofitted to some earlier boats. And some of the later boats did not have split upper rudders.

Jacob[/quote]

The upper rudders were also taller on the 616 boats. Best seen with a picture of a 640 and 616 moored side by side at a tender.

Here is a comparison between the Ethan Allen class and Lafayette class:

[url]https://i.imgur.com/Lnzpo8O.png[/url]

These elevation views are from the Piping TABs for SSBN 611 and SSBN 654-659. I don't know if this has been mentioned previously in this thread, but all Polaris boats after the Lafayette class were dimensionally identical. Some like to break the Lafayette class up into the James Madison and Benjamin Franklin classes, but these are probably best classified as sub-classes or flights of the Lafayette class. The only major external difference I can think of is that the fairwater planes for the Franklins are about halfway down the sail, whereas the earlier boats had them higher up. Also, some of the later boats had end plates on their horizontal stabilizers, but I believe this was retrofitted to some earlier boats. And some of the later boats did not have split upper rudders.

Jacob

Gentlemen,

I just ordered the Polar Bear Models Soviet Yankee 1. Boris has agreed to custom make the Ethan Allen (SSBN 608) for me as well. Perhaps some of you would like one as well.

Bill

[quote="William"]Maarten,

Your Allen looks great! My goal is to build her as she appeared when I was onboard, all black. Yours looks like her appearance between 1963 and the early 1970s. Nice approach!

Bill[/quote]
Thanks Bill! Yes, I chose that colur scheme to have at least one of my Boomers stand out a little different; black is quite dull as you have a couple of these on your shelf... And of course the most important fact in history of Ethan Allen (the only firing of a life nuke missile - Frigate Bird) was in 1962, so possibly in that colour scheme.

My most important observation as a modeler though is that, while Ethan Allen shares the sleek looks of the Lafayette, the proportions of the ship are quite different, being shorter and the sail closer to the bow.

Maarten,

Your Allen looks great! My goal is to build her as she appeared when I was onboard, all black. Yours looks like her appearance between 1963 and the early 1970s. Nice approach!

Bill

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the welcome! I can't wait to get started on my project but it is taking awhile for the Lafayette to arrive. I will keep you all informed.

Bill

[quote="Guest"]Gentlemen,

I am new to this thread and am a retired USN submariner (Hospital Corpsman). My first boat was the USS Ethan Allen (SSBN/SSN) 608 back in the early '80s. Anyway, I, too, have looked for a kit of the Allen for decades but have been hopeful that Micro-Mir would release a kit of her. I wrote to them making that recommendation without success, so, I have decided to convert their Lafayette to an Allen. This thread should prove to be most helpful!

I look forward to posting my progress after the kit comes in!

Bill[/quote]
Hi Bill, Welcome to the group! I did the same conversion, first in error, but thanks to additional info through this thread with corrections. Let me know when you need any help![attachment=0]DSC02258 reduced.jpg[/attachment]

Maarten

Hi Bill,
Welcome to the group. We look forward to your progress with your model.

Best regards,
Tom

Gentlemen,

I am new to this thread and am a retired USN submariner (Hospital Corpsman). My first boat was the USS Ethan Allen (SSBN/SSN) 608 back in the early '80s. Anyway, I, too, have looked for a kit of the Allen for decades but have been hopeful that Micro-Mir would release a kit of her. I wrote to them making that recommendation without success, so, I have decided to convert their Lafayette to an Allen. This thread should prove to be most helpful!

I look forward to posting my progress after the kit comes in!

Bill

[quote="aptivaboy"]Hey, one last thing. One are that the plans are unclear on is the flatness of the sail's top. Is it actually flat with fillets there where the sides meet the top, or does the top of the sail actually have a subtle curvature or camber? I've been going back and forth between the plans and the various photos and different angles seem to show slightly different shapes. Can anyone "who was there" confirm the flatness or camber of the top of the sail?

Thanks,

Bob[/quote]

top of the sail has camber so it curves.

Hey, one last thing. One are that the plans are unclear on is the flatness of the sail's top. Is it actually flat with fillets there where the sides meet the top, or does the top of the sail actually have a subtle curvature or camber? I've been going back and forth between the plans and the various photos and different angles seem to show slightly different shapes. Can anyone "who was there" confirm the flatness or camber of the top of the sail?

Thanks,

Bob