The Ship Model Forum

[quote="Tom Dougherty"][quote] I'm probably crazy enough to try to fix at least the bow of the Mikromir Tullibee. [/quote]
That’s an intricate task, getting it symmetrical and properly shaped.

Keep in mind that the majority of the crazed submarine model builders are those of us on this board… The potential numbers of buyers are small :smallsmile:[/quote]

I like trying insane stuff. You should see what I am doing to the Mikromir PAPA.

I'd still buy one off of Mike since I would likely decide that I need to move on to other projects at some point.

Dave

Mike,
Well I will certainly buy a new bow section. I was looking at the MikroMir Tullibee and wondering what to do with it. Since I finished the resin kit from YKM as the early outfitting, I would love to do the later version with larger PUFFS and 7 blades. But I was just shaking my head at the wrong shape of the bow. Sure, I could try to fix it, but it would be a real task to get it correct, and I have so many other kits waiting to be assembled.

I will send you a separate email, as I need a few more propellers as well as I want to know if you still produce the 1/350 Regulus missiles. I need a set for Halibut, and I don't particularly care for the thin photo etch wings on the ones that come with the kit.

Tom

[quote="ssn705"]Am I still the only other owner of an Ula?

I have to agree that Mike's screws are awesome. I have a pile of theme for various projects. Looks beautiful on my model of my first boat... Shockingly SSN 705...

I'm probably crazy enough to try to fix at least the bow of the Mikromir Tullibee.

Dave[/quote]

No, no longer! Someone purchased one in August!

[quote="Tom Dougherty"][quote] I'm probably crazy enough to try to fix at least the bow of the Mikromir Tullibee. [/quote]
That’s an intricate task, getting it symmetrical and properly shaped.

Actually, the easiest fix would be a 3D printed bow replacement piece. The forward hull basically abruptly transitions to a a hemisphere shape rather than the elliptical bow taper as on the MikroMir kit. The question would be is it economically worthwhile for someone to spend the time designing it? And would individuals be willing to pay, say $15-20 for a replacement bow piece?

Keep in mind that the majority of the crazed submarine model builders are those of us on this board… The potential numbers of buyers are small :smallsmile:[/quote]

The time to sketch this out will be small. I looked at it some more last night as I was sanding the seam line on the hull. There's the natural scribe line for the bow on the kit and that would be my chopping point. Then it's just a matter of agreeing what the shape should be as the CAD time won't be that long. As for price point, yeah, I think I can easily hit that. Easily. As for # of buyers...no concerns there inasmuch as I'm doing it for myself first and foremost. So if anyone else wants one, great!

[quote] I'm probably crazy enough to try to fix at least the bow of the Mikromir Tullibee. [/quote]
That’s an intricate task, getting it symmetrical and properly shaped.

Actually, the easiest fix would be a 3D printed bow replacement piece. The forward hull basically abruptly transitions to a a hemisphere shape rather than the elliptical bow taper as on the MikroMir kit. The question would be is it economically worthwhile for someone to spend the time designing it? And would individuals be willing to pay, say $15-20 for a replacement bow piece?

Keep in mind that the majority of the crazed submarine model builders are those of us on this board… The potential numbers of buyers are small :smallsmile:

[quote="Woodstock74"]Cool, looking good Tom! So all of this has motivated me to look at Tullibee screws and I put the Mikro-Mir hull together last night and will print this evening (hopefully) what I drew up last night. The screw boss diameter looks to be a little smaller for the Tullibee, hence one of the reasons why I've decided to go the bespoke route. Initially I was hoping I could just repurpose the Thresher 5-blade, but there appears to be about a .6 mm diameter difference between the two. The other was that I suspected the blade diameter might be slightly smaller and Vepr has confirmed that for the 5-blade (my first hit at it I just went with 12.5' for the 5-blade). Though that brings us to the 7-blade that we assumed the Tullibee eventually had; is it safe to assume its diameter was similar to Thresher/Sturgeon's 7-blade?[/quote]

They probably kept the same diameter for the Tullibee's seven-bladed propeller. The max RPM was 200, like pretty much all submarines of that generation, so you wouldn't necessarily have the issue of blade tips being too fast. But you couldn't make the propeller boss any larger in diameter, and it might actually lead to a decrease in efficiency because you are operating more outside the wake of the very slim hull of the Tullibee.

Jacob

Am I still the only other owner of an Ula?

I have to agree that Mike's screws are awesome. I have a pile of theme for various projects. Looks beautiful on my model of my first boat... Shockingly SSN 705...

I'm probably crazy enough to try to fix at least the bow of the Mikromir Tullibee.

Dave

[quote="Tom Dougherty"]Thanks, Mike. Yes the five bladed screw looks excellent, even if a little oversized. The original kit came with both 5 & 7 blade photo etch screws, the standard with the Yankee ModelWorks kits of the early 2000’s. As I mentioned, I also added photo etch grates on the bottom, as the kit had no blast tank openings, just a smooth hull.

I would comment that the MikroMir [i]Tullibee[/i], which I have, seems to have more of an elliptical bow rather than the hemispheric shape on [i]Tullibee [/i]. Also, the stern should taper more abruptly near the rudder and sternplanes; [i]Tullibee [/i] had a constant diameter hull for most of its length. Unfortunately, these are not easily fixed on the MikroMir kit, you would have to pretty much redo the hull. Major & difficult plastic surgery, with lots of putty and measurements to get the hull rounded off. See the diagram of [i]Tullibee[/i] above. So, just assemble the kit and enjoy.

[b]Note to all[/b]. Mike is producing an outstanding set of 3D printed propellers of several designs. Much superior to photo etch or some of the plastic ones that come with kits (looking at you, MikroMir).[/quote]

All of that might be easy enough to draw and print...and with the hull assembled I can have a better gander at that...I see what you're seeing in the bow and I was looking at that last night as I put her together. We should chat about this some more.

And thanks again for the plug! I purchased a new printer (larger Mono X) about 3 months ago but haven't seen to find time to work it in. At some point I want to be able to offer my Nacken and Ula for sale at reasonable prices (that's the primary reason I haven't offered the Nacken up to Shapeways). Anyhow, hopefully I'll stop being intimidated by the Mono X (it was the same with the Photon, bought it and then looked at it for like 4 months) and get into it and get back to sub stuff (on a 1/35 armor what-if tangent at the moment) as I'm working up Nautilus, and now Tullibee, and have the Alrosa pumpjet to still finish up and release.

Thanks, Mike. Yes the five bladed screw looks excellent, even if a little oversized. The original kit came with both 5 & 7 blade photo etch screws, the standard with the Yankee ModelWorks kits of the early 2000’s. As I mentioned, I also added photo etch grates on the bottom, as the kit had no blast tank openings, just a smooth hull.

I would comment that the MikroMir [i]Tullibee[/i], which I have, seems to have more of an elliptical bow rather than the hemispheric shape on [i]Tullibee [/i]. Also, the stern should taper more abruptly near the rudder and sternplanes; [i]Tullibee [/i] had a constant diameter hull for most of its length. Unfortunately, these are not easily fixed on the MikroMir kit, you would have to pretty much redo the hull. Major & difficult plastic surgery, with lots of putty and measurements to get the hull rounded off. See the diagram of [i]Tullibee[/i] above. So, just assemble the kit and enjoy.

[b]Note to all[/b]. Mike is producing an outstanding set of 3D printed propellers of several designs. Much superior to photo etch or some of the plastic ones that come with kits (looking at you, MikroMir).

[quote="Tom Dougherty"]Mike,
When I completed my [i]Tullibee[/i] model a couple of weeks ago:
(Posted here: [url]http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/ss/ssn-597/Tullibee-350-td/index.htm[/url]
I put one of your 3D printed, five bladed screws on the model, as it was early “as built” [i]Tullibee[/i]. The contemporary [i]Skipjack[/i] class all initially had five blade “speed” screws, so I reasoned, in light of the few photos available, none of the stern, that [i]Tullibee [/i] originally had a five blade screw as well. [i]Thresher[/i] was also initially equipped with a five blade screw, as were the early Polaris boats.

As time went on, all were retrofitted with the seven blade skew back screw. This greatly finished low frequency blade rate noise from the propeller. SOSUS had tipped off the Navy that low frequency blade rate noise carried for quite a distance in the deep sound channel. During its first deployment, [i]George Washington[/i], SSBN598, had a five blade screw. SOSUS tracked it from the US to Holy Loch, Scotland.

So, the five blade screw made the most sense to me for a submarine that went to sea in 1960. I should mention that the 3D printed version that you make is much superior to the photo etch version that comes with the kit. Same goes for your other printed propellers.[/quote]


Cool, looking good Tom! So all of this has motivated me to look at Tullibee screws and I put the Mikro-Mir hull together last night and will print this evening (hopefully) what I drew up last night. The screw boss diameter looks to be a little smaller for the Tullibee, hence one of the reasons why I've decided to go the bespoke route. Initially I was hoping I could just repurpose the Thresher 5-blade, but there appears to be about a .6 mm diameter difference between the two. The other was that I suspected the blade diameter might be slightly smaller and Vepr has confirmed that for the 5-blade (my first hit at it I just went with 12.5' for the 5-blade). Though that brings us to the 7-blade that we assumed the Tullibee eventually had; is it safe to assume its diameter was similar to Thresher/Sturgeon's 7-blade?

Your instincts were right Tom, the Tullibee originally did have a 5-bladed propeller. This report has the original propeller designs for the Thresher, Tullibee, and Permit (SSGN 594):

https://dome.mit.edu/handle/1721.3/48952

I suspect the scaling of these propellers was a factor of 16.667, which would make the Tullibee's propeller 12'9" in diameter.

Jacob

Mike,
When I completed my [i]Tullibee[/i] model a couple of weeks ago:
(Posted here: [url]http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/ss/ssn-597/Tullibee-350-td/index.htm[/url]
I put one of your 3D printed, five bladed screws on the model, as it was early “as built” [i]Tullibee[/i]. The contemporary [i]Skipjack[/i] class all initially had five blade “speed” screws, so I reasoned, in light of the few photos available, none of the stern, that [i]Tullibee [/i] originally had a five blade screw as well. [i]Thresher[/i] was also initially equipped with a five blade screw, as were the early Polaris boats.

As time went on, all were retrofitted with the seven blade skew back screw. This greatly finished low frequency blade rate noise from the propeller. SOSUS had tipped off the Navy that low frequency blade rate noise carried for quite a distance in the deep sound channel. During its first deployment, [i]George Washington[/i], SSBN598, had a five blade screw. SOSUS tracked it from the US to Holy Loch, Scotland.

So, the five blade screw made the most sense to me for a submarine that went to sea in 1960. I should mention that the 3D printed version that you make is much superior to the photo etch version that comes with the kit. Same goes for your other printed propellers.

Do we have any insight regarding Tullibee's screw? Is it safe to assume similar to Sturgeon? Or more like the small diameter Narwhal?

I haven't gotten any work done because I was on deployment and then on a second one. Hope to finish my first boat (705) shortly though.

I did finish TIRU as the first GIII earlier this year though.

Great pic. I would certainly say that leans towards hemispherical.

Might just be a matter of the hull necking down a little to the hemisphere. It might be a matter of moving the seam to visually fake it.

Congrats to your son and to you on your retirement.

Dave

Dave,
So here’s the best view I know of Tullibee’s bow.
[url]http://navsource.org/archives/08/591/0859719.jpg[/url]
I know it’s at an angle, but the hemispheric, more blunt shape of the bow is evident.

I just ordered a MicroMir Tullibee kit from the Ukraine. Not a lot of sources in the US for MicroMir kits.

Thanks for the comment on the fleet boat Guppy conversion. It’s a Yankee ModelWorks Guppy ll kit in resin I bought years ago. It was on the market for several tens of minutes. I did some modifications (added the bow chin sonar). It’s virtually complete except for a few items, but I put it on hold in February while 1.) I finished work on my last molecular biology project and retired from Harvard Medical School. 2.) completed a build of a resin model of the K-129 Golf ll sub for David Sharp, senior director on board the Glomar Explorer, and 3.) drove cross country with my son after his M.Sc. at Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Ca. to Patuxent River Naval Test Center in Maryland for his new position with Flight Test.

Now I will finish the Guppy ll. I also have a YMW resin kit of Clamagore in her Guppy lll configuration, complete with 3 PUFFS. Last year I took 100’s of photos of Clamagore while visiting in South Carolina. The PUFFS have some interesting features that need to be taken into consideration when I build the model.

I hope I now have the time to relax and build.
Tom

Wow, out of left field. Pretty exciting though. I think this is a very interesting topic. Mikro-Mir has been taking a lot of my money recently. I wonder how they choose their topics.

Agree the view shape looks off based on what I have read, but I don't know if I have ever seen an accurate drawing of her anyway specifically because of the bow. Or maybe what has been written is wrong and one of the drawings is actually right.

Tom, love the fleet boat conversion in the background of your Tullibee shot.

Cheers,

Dave

Heard about this a week or so ago. Looking at the parts photo, I am just a bit concerned about the bow shape. Tullibee had a characteristic rounded, hemispheric bow with no real gradual elliptical taper. It was blunt. See photo of my model. At least from the photo of thee kit parts, the bow looks to be closer to a Sturgeon elliptical shaped bow shape, with more of a gradual taper. We’ll see when the kit emerges.

I do appreciate that Mikromir is producing an array of submarine models.

Mikro Mir announced USS Tullibee in 1/350! Sprue shots on FB. At work at the moment, will link later if no one else has.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/mikro.mir.dnepr/photos/a.1416729748404757/3751612104916498/

Before anyone becomes too enamored of the above posted drawing of Tullibee two posts back, let me disabuse you of the notion that it is anywhere near accurate. The dimensions are way off. The length is too short, the beam too wide and the stern is the wrong shape. Other than that, it is great. You could use it to make a great model of.... something. The second, linked only drawing is far more correct in dimensions.

Here is a dimensionally correct drawing of Tullibee with less beam and more length. The nose cone is hemispherical rather than the later more streamlined bow caps.
Also, attached is a photo of the 1/350 Tullibee under construction on my model desk.

Click the small photos below to enlarge.

Thanks. Nice drawing, even has 2 of the puff arrays. That's sure a start.
I have a low quality drawing of the sail and fairwater but I need my 4.0 Diopter glasses for that. Your 2nd link is EXCELLENT! Great drawing of the deck.

Ken Hart's model of Tullibee is what initially got me interested.

Nino

My little drawing...