The Ship Model Forum

Hi, Will!
Thanks for visiting the Fighthing Merchantmen thread.
This thread is mainly about War Transports, while Q-ships were sub hunters in disguise.
I am no specialist on the Q-ships, even though it is quite a fascinating aspect of British naval warfare.
If there is no Q-ship thread as shuch in the "Call All" section of forum, I´d recommend to post your question in Main Forum.
Good hunting!
Guido

I am uncertain as to whether this is the correct place for my question. If not then sorry.
I am a newbie to ships and to modelling so please excuse the basic nature of my query.
Are there any plans or drawings, kits etc for Q ships aka Mystery ships?
I understand that only one British vessel (Hyderbad?)was purposely built as a Q ship and that all others were draftees?
Cheers
Will

Graham,
You said you were looking for reference books on Empire ships - nobody has mentioned
Wartime Standard Ships - Volume 1 - Empire ships of World War 2
and
Wartime Standard Ships - Volume 2 - The Oceans, the Forts and the Parks

Both books by WH Mitchell and LA Sawyer

I obtained a second-hand volume 3 of this series (WW1 standard ships) from Amazon as they're probably long out of print. The data/photos/history are an excellent piece of reference. Recommended

Jim S

Jim: thanks for the tips, I have saved the URLs for future reference. For period, I would say WW2 to match most of my warship kits, but I've no preference for individual ship other than being available in kit form rather than being scratch-built: some kitbashing welcomed. Oh, and a North-East builder (Tyne/Wear/Tees) would be nice.

AR, PetroS: OK, you're pushing on an open door, I'll place them on my next order to WEM, which will be soon.

Harry: Sounds good. At the moment I don't know what an Empire Type B is, although I would assume from the Niko kit title that Empire Darwin was one, and hence it is a standard Doxford ship? Which collier are you doing - I presume it is from the Waine book?

Graham,

I have a Collier and Empire type B kit that will be available soon.

Graham,
Depending on whether you want to model a specific ship or period, check out the following websites:-

http://smmlonline.com/articles/doxford/doxford.html

which gives some details of the Doxford type 'standard' ship and also points you in the direction of the fleets that operated them.

Additionally, take an evening browsing through the photos on

http://www.photoship.co.uk/

or

http://www.benjidog.co.uk/allen/index.htm

Hope this helps

Jim S

Hey

I guess I shall double the Ar's tip - I got my vol. 1 yesterday, and it is fantastic!

Obtain the two volumes that I mentioned.


[quote="Graham Boak"]Yes, I have the Waines Collier book and am very impressed - Loose Cannon were intending to produce some collier kits but they haven't appeared as yet. The main question I have is whether the tramp ships would be mainly older vessels, with more modern ships operated by shipping lines?[/quote]

Yes, I have the Waines Collier book and am very impressed - Loose Cannon were intending to produce some collier kits but they haven't appeared as yet. The main question I have is whether the tramp ships would be mainly older vessels, with more modern ships operated by shipping lines?

See British Ocean Tramps Volumes one and two, by Thomas, published by Waine Research Publications.
You will not be disappointed.


[quote="Graham Boak"]Yes, I did have some gentle kitbashing in mind, although I am a little reluctant to do much with resin kits. The main problem is a lack of information on British merchant ships. I'm willing to buy appropriate books, but I don't know where to start on finding the most appropriate ones. Did the Empire Darwin even have a direct sister, the same as the Niko kit but lacking the catapult? I have found the yardbooks for Gray's, but they are difficult to read online and I haven't yet had the patience to plough through them all in search of a twin, only finding smaller vessels.

This problem may have been solved indirectly, as I've recently obtained the Iwashige book on modelling Japanese merchants. There is much inspiration in there for minor changes to the Skywave kits (although several vessels are irritatingly a little short), more significant changes to the Hasegawa, and a very ambitious plan for the Aosima into a smaller AMC! I do wonder if the Skywave tanker might not be a better starting point for some of the earlier subjects, even as a rather different approach (perhaps) to your own subject.[/quote]

Yes, I did have some gentle kitbashing in mind, although I am a little reluctant to do much with resin kits. The main problem is a lack of information on British merchant ships. I'm willing to buy appropriate books, but I don't know where to start on finding the most appropriate ones. Did the Empire Darwin even have a direct sister, the same as the Niko kit but lacking the catapult? I have found the yardbooks for Gray's, but they are difficult to read online and I haven't yet had the patience to plough through them all in search of a twin, only finding smaller vessels.

This problem may have been solved indirectly, as I've recently obtained the Iwashige book on modelling Japanese merchants. There is much inspiration in there for minor changes to the Skywave kits (although several vessels are irritatingly a little short), more significant changes to the Hasegawa, and a very ambitious plan for the Aosima into a smaller AMC! I do wonder if the Skywave tanker might not be a better starting point for some of the earlier subjects, even as a rather different approach (perhaps) to your own subject.

Graham,
The Niko Empire Darwin is a good base for many merchant ships pre, wartime and post war given that is based on a 'standard' design (Doxford type) freighter. Some of these ships were still operational into the 60's.

If you want to do a little kitbashing the opportunities are many.

Here's my kitbash, taking the HP Models Empire freighter and making it a 1929 NYK 'Maru'

http://www.finewaterline.com/pages/gallery/merchants/jstsuruga/jstsuruga.htm

Jim S

I thought I'd resurrect this thread with a few questions.

The Niko CAM ship is Empire Darwin: what else can be done with this kit. Sisterships?

An earlier suggestion was to model the San Demetrio - I'd have thought Ohio a more significant choice. I considered this a while ago: Ohio was very similar to the only slightly later T2. The hull is much the same, with sightly modified superstructure but rather different deck furniture which put me off trying it. Has anyone else considered this?

Honestly, a fair approximation will do nicely. I am clearly one of those opposing the colour GeStaPo: I think there's no absolute right or wrong when it comes to colour coats used under war condition. Of cause "by the book" you can be on or off, no doubt. However, what was actually used to paint the ships might very much deviate from the book. I'll be looking into the MSL and MSD, but in´the end I'll likely be going for 507a, b, c. after wear, tear and weathering it won't matter that much.
Thanks for the tips!
Guido

Guido - colours were most likely (pre 1941) AP507C verticals and AP507A horizontals as the standard but there would be variation on this.

For example anything lease-lend would probably retain an American scheme.

Later war, MS (merchant ship) greys were adopted. MSL (merchant ship light) for verticals and MSD (merchant ship dark) for horizontals.

Also some ships wore a combinration of MSL and MSD with a dark band of MSD above the boot topping, similair to USN Measure 12(?).

As regards MSL and MSD in b/w photos they don't look a lot different from 507C and 507A, but I suspect John Snyder or Alan Raven will give you a much better answer than this.

Cheers,

Rob

Aye!
No rush here! Take you time! Have a look at
http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24203&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

You can see, I am FAR from starting to paint.
Cheers,
Guido

Guido,

Shot in the dark, but I think you are looking at either a medium or light grey. Either 507B or 507C. I think I've got a reference for them somewhere.

Give me a day or so to double check.

Cheers,

Rob

Hello, gentlemen!
What greys do you recommend for 1943 "Standard Fast" cargo liners?
Guido

Epinniger - here's a couple of useful links:

http://www.t2tanker.org/

http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org11-2.htm

I built my T2 as a post-war Esso vessel.

Cheers,

Rob

I'm thinking of starting work on the Revell 1/400 T2 tanker kit soon. This is the "Esso Glasgow" issue but includes all the parts necessary to build the ship as a WW2 tanker (only the decal sheet is different) which is what I'll be doing.
I'll be replacing much of the kit's detail with scratchbuilt and PE parts, but have a few questions:
- Other than the flat hull, is this kit a reasonably accurate representation of a T2 tanker?
- Did these ships commonly carry camouflage schemes on the Atlantic convoys, or were they more usually painted grey?
- Are there any references available on the names of these ships? Revell's original issue was named "Mission Capistrano", which I think was a fleet oiler.

Regarding the San Demetrio, I'm fairly certain I have some photos of the model of this ship (in damaged condition) at the Imperial War Museum - I'll upload them if anyone is interested (assuming I can find them)