The Ship Model Forum

Very, very nice!

For anyone interested in WW1 Monitors, I put the photos of M33 online here;

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=149099

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1302/290_23956_1ff0eb797b666a7.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1302/290_23956_1af5607a3dfb50c.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1302/290_23956_769a37a625ced07.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1302/290_23956_588cf4312e2a3d8.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1302/290_23956_2345516ca5c7da3.jpg[/img]

I now have three models of M-class monitors in 1/600:

http://ptdockyard.com/1600-russian-civil-war/

M-25 with 7.5"
M-27 with Triple 4"
M class with two 6"

I'm not aware of any other M-class kits out there now.

Brazilian Navy mantains till today the Monitor "Parnaíba", comissioned in 1938. For its 69 years, the ship is in excellent conditions. You can see and read more at:

http://www.naval.com.br/NGB/P/P043/P043.htm

Enjoy!!! :thumbs_up_1:[attachment=0]P043-f13PARNAIBA.jpg[/attachment]

[quote="urtch"]Has anybody seen Kombrig's Finnish coastal defence ship kits?[/quote]

I have [i]Vainammoine[/i]. Very nice tiny model. I have her planned to be built for ages but can't figure out her camo scheme by 1942 which is quite nice but photos are erratic and no profiles of her camo scheme are available as far as I am aware. Also, there would be the issue of what paints to use.

Has anybody seen Kombrig's Finnish coastal defence ship kits?

As I'll be building another coast-defence ship in the near future (HMTBD Velox will be next though!), I've got some questions to contribute to this thread.

[url=http://www.papershipwright.co.uk/ps08/details.shtml]Paper Shipwright[/url] have just released a 1/250 scale card model of the Danish coast defence ship [i]Peder Skram[/i]. This ship was built in 1908, and served until WW2 when it was captured and used as a flak ship by the Germans (after being scuttled in 1943); it was eventually sunk in 1945 by Allied bombing, and was raised + scrapped in 1949. It had two near-sisters, Herluf Trolle and Olfert Fischer, both scrapped in the 1930s.

I ordered the PS card kit yesterday, and am planning on scratchbuilding a 1/96 styrene model using this card model as a plan, the same way I built HMVS Cerberus (also from a PS card model). However, I wouldn't have been able to complete Cerberus to anywhere near as high a level of detail without the many contemporary photographs and drawings of the ship which I downloaded from http://cerberus.com.au . Paper Shipwright's kits are very accurate and detailed for their size, but if you're building a model 2.6 times as large, a lot more detail is needed! (this is a problem I've also encountered with my current scratchbuild USS Hazard, the card model for which is fairly basic and simplified)

I'm not sure what date the kit represents, as the ship was refitted a number of times before WW2. At one point it had a catapult floatplane (a license-built Hansa-Brandenburg W.29 monoplane) which would be interesting to build.

After searching on Google I've found the following pages on the Peder Skram:
[url]http://www.milhist.dk/weapons/shipdata/skram_1908.htm[/url]
http://navalhistory.dk/English/TheShips/P/PederSkram_CoastDefense(1908).htm (can't get this one to work as a URL for some reason)
Both of these have some interesting + useful history and data on the ship but very little in the way of photos.

and this page:
[url]http://navalhistory.dk/English/History/1939_1945/US/PederSkram_us.htm[/url]
with a large collection of photos of the scuttled ship in 1943.

Anyway, my question is - does anyone know of any other sources of reference on this ship - in online or book form? Jane's Fighting Ships of WW1 has a small photo and (I think) a small line drawing or silhouette, but that's about it.

Many thanks Gregory. I had knowledge of Arigas site indeed. Most useful indeed.:thumbs_up_1:
Cheers,

Filipe

Filipe Ramirez:

I think you must already be aware are this site, but just in case, I thought I should list it. I just stumbled upon the Dhonburi section this afternoon. There is a nice drawing of the Dhonburi and quite a few photos of the ship & her sisters & even a painting.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Syjam/Coastal_Battleships/1938_Dhonburi_class/_Dhonburi_class.html

Cheers :thumbs_up_1:

[quote="Laurence Batchelor"]I wasn't aware Ark's hull was welded? Only some of her superstructure?

I thought he was asking about the monitors hulls? :scratch: and that was what I was reffering to from 1944 onwards.[/quote]

Perhaps some confusion here...
I wanted to know about monitors... I just added that Ark Royal info for curiosity, which I read in D K Brown´s "Designing and Construction of British Warships" vol.1, were he states that "65% of her structure was welded"...
Hope this clears the confusion... :big_grin: :thumbs_up_1:

:cool_1: .

I wasn't aware Ark's hull was welded? Only some of her superstructure?

I thought he was asking about the monitors hulls? :scratch: and that was what I was reffering to from 1944 onwards.

[quote="Laurence Batchelor"]All welded hull construction only came into warship building in the UK from about 1944onwards and at first it was mainly on destroyers.
[/quote]

You´re quite right..although welding techniques had already been used in large scale, and in such ships as Ark Royal, whose construction ended in 1938.

:cool_1: .

Good news on Dhonburi. Apparently there is a company/shop in Thailand that produces a 1/700 resin model of this monitor. I've contacted them and I was told that they are currently out of stock but they might have a new "breed" in the next few months!!! Aaaahhhh, I'm going to get it I hope....at least it saves me the work of a full scratch-build!!!! :big_grin:

Hi Gregory,

You got me lost here now. Are you speaking of [i]Dhonburi[/i] or [i]Surabaya[/i]? I have a keen interest on both namely the former one which I am preparing to do a scratch. Regarding the second I have very little information on her but I would like to build one also given the reasons I posted here before. Any information on either ships is welcome. I would love to have a copy of that article indeed. I will send you a PM/email tomorrow supplying you my address.
So many thanks. Dhonburi is a specially dark subject. I did try to contact both the gentlemen that did draw the plans I have from her and also the Royal Thai Navy Museum but with no results at all so far.
Cheers,

Filipe

Felipe:

Searching my library, I find that Warship International No. 4 1988 has plan drawings and an internal arrangement profile drawing of the ship. There are also 2 photos (prt bow & bow, slightly to the strbrd). The article is by Anthonie van Dijk and is entitled "The Drawing board Battleships for the Royal Netherlands Navy." There is also a profile drawing of the Maren Harpertsz. Tromp & a photo of her (stern, slightly to strbrd). If you would like the article, send me an E-mail with your address & I will mail a copy of the article to you.

I may be wrong, but I think I recall seeing another drawing of one of the Dutch coast defense battleships somewhere. This is not my area of interest, so I did not keep track of it. It might have been one of the small drawings in Galuppi's book.

[quote="Rob"][quote="MichelB"]Count me in too, most of the Dutch predreadnought navy falls in this category. Can't wait to (scratchbuild) build them.[/quote]

Can't wait to see you do so - I think you've got some good subjects to choose from.

Is there much in the way of references?

Cheers,

Rob[/quote]

Get the aforementioned book "Pantserschepen, pantserdekschepen en monitors" by Mulder and Ruygrok, ISBN: 90-807822-2-x. Bit pricey but worth the money. This covers the entire dutch predreadnought era. Large-scale drawings can probably only be found in the various Dutch naval archives. There's also a recent book named "Van Pantserboot tot Kanonneerboot", by Huub Ummels, about the Dutch coastal gunboats of the Brinio-class, built in 1911 and serving in the Second World war, fighting against the german invasion.
And, I can also direct you to http://www.dutchfleet.net, a Dutch (they speak english) site with a lot of knowledgeable people. The "Schepen van Weleer" (ships of yesteryear) forum deals specifically with ships types no longer in service e.i. cruisers, coastal defence, torpedoboats etc. See here for instance:
[url]http://www.dutchfleet.net/viewtopic.php?t=8543[/url]

[quote="MichelB"]Count me in too, most of the Dutch predreadnought navy falls in this category. Can't wait to (scratchbuild) build them.[/quote]

Can't wait to see you do so - I think you've got some good subjects to choose from.

Is there much in the way of references?

Cheers,

Rob

Felipe,
Soerabaja was the former De Zeven Provincien renamed after the mutiny of 1933. As the vessel seems to have fallen from official favour after the mutiny not much information on her exists. There's conflicting information for example on where she was scuttled when Java fell to the japanese and whether she was raised and scrapped or left in place. The only picture I kown of is the one which is regularly found on the internet, for example on http://www.dutchfleet.net/viewtopic.php?t=7595&start=16
If you want to scratchbuilt her, small scale line plans can be found in "Pantserschepen, pantserdakschepen en monitors" by Mulder and Ruygrok
ISBN: 90-807822-2-x. I do not think her lines changed during the rebuild, the main problem will be the changes in the superstcrurure and weapons.

Michel, regarding the Dutch pre-dreads I have a keen interest on [i]Soerabaya[/i] (spelling?) since she was part of the Allied Force that landed in Portuguese Timor on the 15th of December 1941. Only have a couple of photos of her sadly and little information of what was her fit by that time.