The Ship Model Forum

Have noticed a few.questions about The Northern Sun,my dad was a stoker on her between Nov 40 &March 41..I have a signed hurt award dated the 9th Feb 41by Lt Andrews RNR so would presume he was in charge at that time,hope this helps to clarify ....

Just a question for whoever knows:

Would a German whaling ship armed for war duties by the Kriegsmarine fall under the banner of Kriegsmarine Fischkutter, or something else?

Hallo Friends

I'm looking schema of painting (camouflage) [b]HMS Fusilier[/b] (Military class trawler) or another this class trawler.

Hi there,

I'm building HMS Ensay from an Interallied Isle class trawler & would like some help with the colours. Here is a photo from the excellent Navyphotos site. There is a profile in one of the Raven camoflage books but it is only 2 colour, 507a & c, so may represent her after a repaint.

[img]http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/ensy1b.jpg[/img]


thanks

Gordon

[quote="mike mccabe"]Hello all,
The Fine Waterline Military Class trawler kit is now available, take a look on [url]http://www.finewaterline.com[/url] for details

Mike[/quote]


Hi Mike thanks for contribution, the model is 1/700 scale. It is now a reference for where to find these ships. :wave_1:

Hello all,
The Fine Waterline Military Class trawler kit is now available, take a look on [url]http://www.finewaterline.com[/url] for details

Mike

[attachment=0]gy440.png[/attachment]



See also http://float-trawlers.lancashire.gov.uk/index.php?a=advanced&s=item&key=XYToxOntzOjExOiJWRVNTRUxfVFlQRSI7czoyOiJTVCI7fQ==&pg=400.

According to http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4006-15RNHome1.htm, Northern Sun was at Hartlepool refitting in Jun 1940 with Lt J Andrew RNR having relieved Lt L C Hill RNR as her Commanding Officer on 19 Jun.

According to http://www.unithistories.com/officers/RNR_officersL.html, her CO from Jul 1940 to Feb 1941 was Lt Henry Owen L'Estrange RNR who was awarded the DSC in June 1942. This entry looks like an anomaly.

According to http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4101-26RNHome.htm she was at Aberdeen refitting in Jan 1941 when her CO was Lt J Andrew RNR.

According to http://rnpatrolservice.org.uk/forum/posting.php?mode=edit&f=3&t=370&p=1152#preview, Lt George Charles Wilson Meldrum RNR was her CO sometime in 1941.

According to http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4201-40RNShips1Home.htm, she was part of the Northern Patrol based at Scapa Flow 1941 to 1942 when her CO was Ty/Lt G T S Clampitt RNR.

This entry for 1 May 1941 from http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4105-32MAY01.htm:

Convoy OB.322 departed Liverpool, escorted by destroyers RAMSEY and WALKER. On the 13th, destroyer CALDWELL, sloop ENCHANTRESS, corvettes BLUEBELL, CANDYTUFT, HONEYSUCKLE, HYDRANGEA, and WALLFLOWER, minesweeper SALAMANDER, and anti-submarine trawlers KING SOL, NORTHERN SUN, and NORTHERN WAVE joined. Corvette ARABIS joined on the 14th. Destroyers CALDWELL, RAMSEY, and WALKER, sloop ENCHANTRESS, corvettes BLUEBELL, CANDYTUFT, HONEYSUCKLE, HYDRANGEA, and WALLFLOWER, and trawler KING SOL were detached on the 18th. Destroyer BURNHAM, BURWELL, and SCIMITAR and corvettes HELIOTROPE and MALLOW joined on the 20th. The escort was detached when the convoy dispersed on the 20th.

HMT Northern Sun:

According to the Bosun's Watch at http://www.fleetwood-trawlers.info/?p=4002:

S.T. Northern Sun LO161

Technical

Official Number: 165342
Yard Number: 551
Completed: September 1936
Gross Tonnage: 655
Net Tonnage: 254
Length: 188.1 ft
Breadth: 28.1 ft
Draught: 15.5 ft
Engine: T.3-cyl & LP turbine with DR gearing & hydraulic coupling by Deutsche Schiffs und Maschinenbau AG Seebeck, Wesermünde.
Built: Deutsche Schiffs und Maschinenbau AG Seebeck, Wesermünde, 1936
Owner: MacLine Ltd, London

History

1936: Ordered by Leverhulme Ltd, London to absorb frozen credits in Germany.
9.1936: Completed by Deutsche Schiffs und Maschinenbau AG Seebeck, Wesermünde (Yd.No.551) for MacLine Ltd, London (Leverhulme Ltd) as NORTHERN SUN (LO161). Operating out of Fleetwood (Edward D. W. Lawford, manager).
1937: Sold to Northern Trawlers Ltd, London (H. Markham Cook, Grimsby, manager).
1.9.1939: Requisitioned for war service and fitted out for patrol duties (P.No.4.18) (Hire rate £425.15.0d/month).
1942: Fitted out for anti-submarine duties.
1944: Assigned to Operation Neptune – Normandy landings.
23.5.1944: Convoy escort duties in British waters and across the Channel in support of landings.
3.7.1944: Operation Neptune ended.
1945: Employed as ocean escort.
12.12.1945: Returned after survey and restoration at Birkenhead.
1946: London registry closed.
12.1946: Registered at Grimsby (GY440).
6.1948: Converted for burning oil fuel, F.P. above 150° F
pre1959: John Bennett appointed manager.
pre1963: John A. Butt appointed manager.
1966: Sold to Scrappingco S.r.l., Antwerp for demolition.
2.7.1966: Delivered Antwerp.

According to Seek and Strike - Sonar, anti-submarine warfare and the Royal Navy 1914-1954 by Willem Hackmann:

"...The asdic set that emerged from World War I was relatively simple. The 15" non-resonant single-ply quartz-steel transducer was activated by a valve transmitter similar to the type used in wireless telegraphy, trained manually, and housed in a retracting cylindrical canvas-covered dome placed off centre in order to avoid cutting the keel. The pulse was sent by means of a Morse-type send/receive key. The operating voltage was probably in the range of 6,000 to 10,000 volts DC and the transducer frequency between 20 and 50 KHz. This set was first installed in the trials ship HMT Ebro II in October 1918, and was probably assigned the first sonar type number, Type 111, soon after the war although this is nowhere explicitly stated. The first set to be mentioned in official documents is Type 112, probably more or less identical but standardised for ship-fitting."



Sonar Type 122 (1927-1933) is listed as having been fitted in trawlers and drifters and is described as:
"First small craft set developed for trawlers with no electricity supply. Idea under test (HMT Blackwater) since 1927. Resonant circuit transmitter powered by steam turbo-generator-alternator. Streamlined portable (detachable) dome. Not many vessels fitted. Frequency range 14-22 KHz (new attack set/destroyer frequency range). Fitted: Prototype in HMT Blackwater of 1st A/S Flotilla, and ten sets for Trawler Reserve (1933) installed in drifters (1940)."

ASW trawlers listed as of no specific class:

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=332

Read here about ASDIC on board HMS "Pearl" T22 :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/98/a7462398.shtml

[attachment=0]t22.jpg[/attachment]

Modeling facts:
If you're going to build the steam trawler HMS Le Tiger, consider this curiosity: in some period of WW2, not so clear to me, it was part of a fleet know as White Elephants due to his paint white.
Another general doubts I've been reading about was if had armed trawlers ever been fitted with ASDIC, the answer is yes, many of these vessels were for A/S duties, and some good source for this information and examples is the book Grimsby's Fighting Fleet ISBN 0 907033 96 2. Not exclusively for use onboard destroyers or corvettes, do not take a weird impression if you find plans for a trawler that shows some asdic.
Read here about "Le Tiger":http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranstales28.htm



HMS Le Tiger (FY 243)
ASW Trawler
Navy The Royal Navy
Type ASW Trawler
Class
Pennant FY 243
Built by Cochrane & Sons Shipbuilders Ltd. (Selby, U.K.)
Ordered
Laid down
Launched 27 Feb 1937
Commissioned Dec 1939
End service
Loss position

History Completed in May 1937.
Taken over by the Admiralty in December 1939.
Displacement: 516 tons.
Armament: 1 4" gun.
Lent to the United States Navy in March 1942, returned in October 1942.
Sold in October 1945 to the Hull Ice Co.
Renamed Regal in July 1947.
Renamed Othello in September 1948.
Scrapped at Ghent, Belgium mid-1963.

Dear modelling friends,
Look out soon for an announcement on the Fine Waterline site http://www.finewaterline.com for something I think you will find of interest, will be up in a day or so but it might look like one of these

[url]http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Old%20Ships%20C/slides/Coldstreamer%20T337-01.html[/url]

Mike

Some more listed "Northerns":

NORTHERN CHIEF, NORTHERN DUKE, NORTHERN FOAM, NORTHERN GIFT, NORTHERN ISLES, NORTHERN PRINCESS, NORTHERN REWARD, NORTHERN SKY, NORTHERN SUN.

Hi FinnFan, sorry but I have no sources for these ships. If I find some will let you know.
I'll be searching some lists about books, and mention here after that.
Nice regards: Jimmy

Does anyone know a source of drawings for the large anti-submarine trawlers with names beginning with "Northern" eg Northern Gem, Northern Pride, Northern Foam? I believe they were built in Germany in the late 1930s for Mac Line trawlers of Fleetwood and then sold to Northern Trawlers of Grimsby. They had a distinguished record as ocean escorts and rescue ships and should make an interesting model.

[attachment=0]NorthernDuke.jpg[/attachment]

TIA

Don

That consul pust appears very much as the Constructo Ladysmith Here is one link http://aabt.co.uk/prd32-1293.htm there are many in the internet. scale is 1:90

I don't know if german "Consul Pust" was armed at some period, but here you have a nice plan for this ship......
http://freeshipplans.com/free_model_fishing_boat_plans.html

Hope you enjoy it!
Nice regards: Jimmy

Timmy
You are probably right, though I must admit I'm not that bothered about it, the photos were non too impressive.

Rick
I hadn't looked through your link properly before, some nice plans there, thanks for posting that up.

Anyone have plans or drawings for the 'football team' class, not sure what they were called but named after English football teams, Mr Allen knows what I mean with his Stoke City.

Mike

Mike, sometimes when HLJ or other stores list things as "Discontinued", they merely mean that the first run has stopped. Often times I see them relisted as "Re-release" a few months down the road. This probably happens with other manufacturers as well, but they don't report the production pauses as often.