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Topic review - 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Tuesday afternoon saw a casualty in the breaker that powers the office - I have our computers running via a couple of extension cords but no overhead lights, so no Thursday night modeling session. I did make some progress though in a coupe of couch sessions hanging out with the Girlfriend and the Mandalorian.

One of the potentian "problems" with the kit that I am probably overthinking is the technique for painting decks and the gun tubs, which have a good amount of overhangs and walk ways underneath that would be very difficult to mask and paint with the tubs in place. So, I decided to leave the tubs off until after the deck was painted, but also given the tight tolerances in today's models, I didn't want to cause fit problems or lots of extra work in scraping down paint. So... we have multiple phases of masking as my method to work around this. I present, Phase One, the areas of the deck that I don't want paint on:

Attachment:
File comment: Port side forward gun tubs
Salem 24.jpg
Salem 24.jpg [ 63.56 KiB | Viewed 1239 times ]


Marking out where the tape goes was pretty easy - I just set the tubs in place and hit the model with it's first layer of primer. The trick with the tape is to get it just inside the line so that no tape is seen when the tub is set down. I cut Tamiya tape into pieces roughly a bit longer than half way, so I could place one in each corner and have a touch of overlap. After doing this I noticed/remembered that the superstructure bulkheads also have some areas that are covered up that a layer of paint might cause fit issues with, so on went some more tape. I had all eight tubs masked off in the space of an evening. Oddly enough, the next step after this will be to paint the hull from the antifouling up.

Standard PE, Steve's bridge improvements, and some Black Cat Mk 56 directors aside, I have wanted to keep this build largely stock, but one departure is the myriad of radio antennas that surround the superstructure - for whatever reason it just has an appeal to me. That said, there is a large aspect of "fragility is thy middle name" about such an addition, so I am going to experiment with a technique a fellow IPMS Seattle model club member advocated for armor model antennas, carbon fiber rod. I have four .010" (.28mm) rods of a meter long to experiment with, I figure that should be enough to get a good technique down. :big_grin: Fairly inexpensive as well

I have the lower two levels of Steve's bridge pieces cut free as well. The middle level still needs some cleanup work to enable it to sit down correctly, but I don't anticipate that taking too long. I plan on treating this as a subassembly that largely "snaps" into place at the end of construction, although the inclined ladders from the levels below may force a change in approach there.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Hey guys - I got my set from Steve on Friday but have been busy catching up on house and yard work and wasn't able to open them until today.

I'm going to go with "wow!" and "Niiiiiiiiceeeee!!!!!!" :thumbs_up_1:

I'll be busy this work though and won't have time to start cutting pieces free until Thursday night. I did want to publicly thank Steve - I asked him if he'd do one or two small parts for me and he did four larger ones. I really appreciate the good people we have in this hobby and Steve's one of them.
Post Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:50 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Tracy and Steve(MM)...
You guys are making it impossible to NOT want to buy a 1/350 Salem.

This beautiful kit with those 3D parts will be fantastic.


I had held out hope that the USN would keep that last Gunned Cruiser. Ya know, just in case. The USS Des Moines was still here in Philly in 2005.

Nino.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:49 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Looks fantastic Steve! The kit parts don't even belong in the same zip code

Matt
Post Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:40 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Ta-daaa.

The model is ready and is now listed in the catalog.


Attachments:
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge a.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge a.jpg [ 215.41 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge d.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge d.jpg [ 166.83 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge e.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge e.jpg [ 194.99 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge f.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge f.jpg [ 122.66 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge g.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge g.jpg [ 174.96 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge h.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge h.jpg [ 165.07 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge i.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge i.jpg [ 160.45 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge j.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge j.jpg [ 197.34 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge k.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge k.jpg [ 186.63 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge assembly guide.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge assembly guide.jpg [ 252.81 KiB | Viewed 1524 times ]
Post Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
:: like button ::

Looking forward to things settling down at work so I have some bench time again.
Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Here are the kit parts for comparison with the 3D model shown above. Notice the shape differences between the kit's pilot house and Mk.37 director tower with those of the 3D model.


Attachments:
Very Fire 1-350 USS Salem bridge parts a.jpg
Very Fire 1-350 USS Salem bridge parts a.jpg [ 169.21 KiB | Viewed 1619 times ]
Very Fire 1-350 USS Salem bridge parts b.jpg
Very Fire 1-350 USS Salem bridge parts b.jpg [ 177.19 KiB | Viewed 1619 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Good news, Tracy and friends, your new 3D bridge design is done. I'll run a test print shortly.

The 3D model is significantly different in detail than the kit parts.

Attachment:
File comment: Photo: Modellmarine.de
36.jpg
36.jpg [ 198.41 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]


Attachments:
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete a.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete a.png [ 243.37 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete b.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete b.png [ 314.91 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete c.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete c.png [ 325.74 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete d.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete d.png [ 338.89 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete e.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete e.png [ 254.84 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete f.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete f.jpg [ 165.16 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete g.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete g.jpg [ 115.75 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete h.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete h.jpg [ 160.32 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete i.jpg
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge complete i.jpg [ 175.26 KiB | Viewed 1623 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:02 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Just a quick update for everyone to set expectations...

I have been and will continue to be busy with a couple of large "time sensitive" projects at work that have been eating all of my time. I don't anticipate any serious bench time for the next two weeks. :dead:
Post Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:28 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
lmo1960 wrote:
Depending on how well the existing Salem and Des Moines kits sell, Very Fire will be doing a modernized Newport News at some point. They have engineered the existing kits to allow for the multiple variations so far: 1) Des Moines as built 2) Salem/Des Moines/Newport News in the first 10 years of service.
Excellent, thank you! I have put my money where my mouth is, I have my USS Salem kit! Boy is she a beauty?! I am about to begin work on Newport News-like structures for her.

Thanks for the news and updates based upon a possible Newport News version. The great thing about a Newport News version would not be a re-design of the kit, but would instead be additional pieces to add onto the existing kit or swapping some out for others.

Keep up the good work! :thumbs_up_1:

:woo_hoo:
Post Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
navydavesof wrote:
ModelMonkey wrote:
Let me know if you can think of anything else.

Oy! Have you gotten a chance to start sketching Flag conversion Newport News pieces (mainly re-purposed Tartar-D structures built around 3" mounts for flag facilities)?

Thanks so much!


Depending on how well the existing Salem and Des Moines kits sell, Very Fire will be doing a modernized Newport News at some point. They have engineered the existing kits to allow for the multiple variations so far: 1) Des Moines as built 2) Salem/Des Moines/Newport News in the first 10 years of service.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:14 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
ModelMonkey wrote:
Below are some renderings of the new bridge after this weekend's updates. Some of what you see here will change and more details will be added. Features that may be of interest:
- The last rendering shows the door on the aft side of the lower deckhouse you (Tracy) asked me to capture. This door and some, but not all, of the other doors will received dogs, too.
- The length of the uppermost deck and deckhouse matches BoGP drawings. It is shorter than the Very Fire kit's parts.
- The shape of the Mk.37 Director tower is consistent with BoGP drawings and photos of Salem, considerably differently shaped than the Very Fire kit's tower which is a simple cylinder.
- The black non-skid is consistent with the Very Fire kit, so that these parts will match the kit's "non-skidded" aft superstructure parts. The non-skid looks very thick in the renderings but is actually just 0.1 mm thin, rising above the deck just enough to be paintable. None of the photos I have of the real ship show any non-skid at all. The ship may have had non-skid applied to her decks and perhaps other references I don't have access to show it. If you would like the non-skid removed from the design, just let me know.
- Vertical reinforcing ribs have been added to the interior of the splinter shielding all around. The Very Fire kit has no splinter shielding ribs.

The model will be separated into 3 parts for easier painting. Generally, the separations will be where a deckhouse meets a deck.

Love the upgrade, it's much more realistic! The square 'box' to the right of the at-sea Flag cabin on the aft end of the Flag Bridge is a non-structural tin/steel storage locker with a flush and square-cut door facing aft. The Salem gallery picture Salem237 featuring the ship's bell shows the upper left side of this add-on storage locker.
The forward section of the flag bridge is significantly less detailed that the main bridge above it, so your model got it right. The 'roof' of the main bridge is a tin/steel add-on when the the original canvas rigged covering wasn't really good enough while the ship was in service. The overhead in the Flag bridge should obviously have (and yours does) the structural elements supporting the deck above.

I love your upgrade and I will be ordering at least one set when it is available!
Post Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:56 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Steve - really appreciate the work you've put into this. :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:26 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
ModelMonkey wrote:
The model will be separated into 3 parts for easier painting. Generally, the separations will be where a deckhouse meets a deck.

Great idea!
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:27 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
ModelMonkey wrote:
The model will be separated into 3 parts for easier painting. Generally, the separations will be where a deckhouse meets a deck.

Excellent work, Monkey! You are making some great products!!!
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:06 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
navydavesof wrote:
ModelMonkey wrote:
Let me know if you can think of anything else.

Oy! Have you gotten a chance to start sketching Flag conversion Newport News pieces (mainly re-purposed Tartar-D structures built around 3" mounts for flag facilities)?...

I'm sorry, Navydavesof, the question was specific to any Salem bridge features Tracy would like me to capture in the replacement Salem bridge parts I'm working on. I regret to say that except for turrets, there are no plans to design other Salem parts or conversion parts for other ships of the class.

Below are some renderings of the new bridge after this weekend's updates. Some of what you see here will change and more details will be added. Features that may be of interest:
- The last rendering shows the door on the aft side of the lower deckhouse you (Tracy) asked me to capture. This door and some, but not all, of the other doors will received dogs, too.
- The length of the uppermost deck and deckhouse matches BoGP drawings. It is shorter than the Very Fire kit's parts.
- The shape of the Mk.37 Director tower is consistent with BoGP drawings and photos of Salem, considerably differently shaped than the Very Fire kit's tower which is a simple cylinder.
- The black non-skid is consistent with the Very Fire kit, so that these parts will match the kit's "non-skidded" aft superstructure parts. The non-skid looks very thick in the renderings but is actually just 0.1 mm thin, rising above the deck just enough to be paintable. None of the photos I have of the real ship show any non-skid at all. The ship may have had non-skid applied to her decks and perhaps other references I don't have access to show it. If you would like the non-skid removed from the design, just let me know.
- Vertical reinforcing ribs have been added to the interior of the splinter shielding all around. The Very Fire kit has no splinter shielding ribs.

The model will be separated into 3 parts for easier painting. Generally, the separations will be where a deckhouse meets a deck.


Attachments:
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete a.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete a.png [ 165.99 KiB | Viewed 1954 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete b.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete b.png [ 259.49 KiB | Viewed 1954 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete c.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete c.png [ 332.48 KiB | Viewed 1954 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete d.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete d.png [ 237.58 KiB | Viewed 1954 times ]
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete e.png
Model Monkey 1-350 Salem CA-139 Bridge at 98 percent complete e.png [ 267.45 KiB | Viewed 1954 times ]
Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:21 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
ModelMonkey wrote:
Let me know if you can think of anything else.

Oy! Have you gotten a chance to start sketching Flag conversion Newport News pieces (mainly re-purposed Tartar-D structures built around 3" mounts for flag facilities)?

Thanks so much!
Post Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Didn't get a lot of modeling time tonight but I was able to start cutting out pieces for the 8" gun jig. This one is going to be a bit different as the guns come with blast bags that are fixed in elevation, but the guns were thin enough that there are subtle bends and warps in them that many people wouldn't notice but that I see "enough" to want to fix. So, the plan in this case is to glue the barrels on, figure the height out and glue in the resting plate to keep them all at the same height, and saw off each barrel at the blast bag and replace with a brass barrel. What you see here is the resting base, some spacers, and a lower base. There will be holes drilled through the two bases and the spacers will allow me to stand off the two and not have a solid chunk to drill through or sacrifice plastic for. Thin strip to the left will be for the aft turret platform to rest against so that all three turrets are keyed precisely. The resting plate that the barrels will rest on will probably come off of the bottom base, which is longer than the spacer pieces and OK to lose some length. I may also create a piece to use to drill the holes for the brass barrels at the same height but I haven't got there yet to see how feasible this is from a work flow standpoint. If I glue it in place to drill the holes, how do I then glue in the barrels that will want to extend down below those pilot holes? I've got a couple of ideas for swapable resting plates I want to try out.

Attachment:
File comment: Parts!
Salem 23.jpg
Salem 23.jpg [ 189.92 KiB | Viewed 1154 times ]


More photos after I get it assembled, of course.
Post Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
maxim wrote:
The links to the photos of USS Salem on Modellmarine does not work anymore


Thanks for the heads up - I edited my original post to use the suggested links.

No photo progress - I haven't had a good amount of time to work on models during the last week. In fact I spent "model time" thursday night during the IPMS Seattle Zoom hang out catching up on work while listening and watching everyone else build. :roll_eyes:

That said, I did finish the prop shafts and struts and primed the hull and main deck / superstructure. I have the sheet styrene to do the barrel jig for the main battery cut out and set aside for this week's meeting. Hopefully progress photos next week?
Post Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: 1/350th CA-139 Salem by Very Fire  Reply with quote
Most excellent! I can’t wait to order one for a Salem kitbash!


ModelMonkey wrote:
Nice work!

Your new bridge parts are almost done, Tracy. Rick Davis has been a big help, too.

Here are two photos of your Very Fire kit's parts followed by renderings of the new 3D design. As you can see, there are some profound and conspicuous differences, most noticeably, the shape of the pilot house and the deckhouse behind it, and of course, open windows. The Very Fire kit appears to be a very good model. Hopefully, the new 3D bridge will be "icing on the cake".

The overall dimensions of the 3D model were based on scans of US Navy Booklet of General Plans (BoGP) drawings of sistership USS Newport News CA-148. The Very Fire kit's decks are a good match to BoGP longitudinally but narrower than shown in Navy plans. The 3D model's decks are a bit wider than the kit's parts, matching BoGP drawings. Note that the 3D model is not a copy of the Very Fire kit's parts, it is an original design, but the 3D parts should fit the kit very well.

Beyond pilot house and deckhouse shapes, some of the other differences between the 3D model and the Very Fire kit's parts:
- The forward portion of the Very Fire kit's uppermost deck and platform astride the director tower is incorrectly shaped, with inaccurately straight sides. The real platform was more chevron- or arrowhead-shaped, wider at the aft end. The correct shape has been captured in the 3D model.
- Photos of the actual ship show that the Very Fire kit's deck supporting beams are simplified, too small, and inaccurately placed. The real beams are larger and of three different configurations. The 3D model's beams are accurately sized and placed and are of three different configurations.
- The 3D model's deck cutouts for inclined ladders are positioned more accurately, further aft than in the Very Fire kit's parts.
- The 3D model's round, deck edge "dimple" is more accurately shaped than the kit's parts.
- The Very Fire kit's canopy above the navigating bridge windows extends too far to the rear. It should not cover the rear-most windows. The correct shape and extents have been captured in the 3D model.
- The 3D model includes pilot house vision ports, accurately tapered toward the interior, and lowered glass coverings with accurate, riveted surrounds and hinge detail. The Very Fire kit has no detailing in this area.
- The instrumentation seen on the panels in front of the 3D model's pilot house is accurate.
- The Very Fire kit's venturi has too many baffles and the venturi is not open. The 3D model accurately captures the correct number of venturi baffles and the baffles are open.

Still looking for some good references showing the interior of the lower (flag) bridge. I'm uncertain as to the details in that area.

Some of what you see in the 3D design will change. Work yet to be done includes adding doors, checking airport (porthole) locations, adding splinter shield interior detailing, detailing the antenna trunk, and adding splinter shield ribs. I'll be sure to add the door on the aft bulkhead you mentioned. The airport missing from the kit next to that door has been captured in the 3D model. The rigols ("eyebrows") above the airports should probably be removed. Photos of Salem today don't show any rigols, which would be unusual for most ships, but perhaps the ship had them in service and for some reason they were removed later.

Let me know if you can think of anything else.
Post Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:03 pm

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