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Topic review - HMS Prince of Wales
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  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Hi All,

As far as I can remember there are images of Churchill leaving PoW on a destroyer showing some form of camo on P1 5.25 barrels plus I think the Pathe News reel film of the Halberd convoy shows P1 firing with some form of camo upon them?

Best wishes
Cag.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:57 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
This is one here where I think there are different tones of colour on the barrel of one of the secondarys.

Also the one looking aft where you can just glimpse some barrels there is what appears to be distinct patterns on them. You can see the forward most secondary barrels are not in pattern but all of the ones aft of it that have been cut off and not quite in the image appear to have a pattern.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
EJFoeth wrote:
I don't see camouflage on the barrels of the secondaries in any of the IWM shots (or any other). Can you post the image?


I will have to go through the images again and try and find it.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
D'ja ever think when you asked the question seven years ago that it would spawn a discussion that lasted this long and changed what we know about history?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:11 pm
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Thanks EJ. I've made another tweak. The barrels will have to wait a while!
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
I don't see camouflage on the barrels of the secondaries in any of the IWM shots (or any other). Can you post the image?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:03 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
mister me wrote:
Steel decks in NARN23 I presume ?

Also shall you give a better pic resolution for barrel camo ?

Thanks for all this work and waiting for EU continental stockists concerning new NARN range !


To make matters harder, I believe the secondary turrets gun barrels had camouflage on them in the same manner as the main turrets. I have glimpsed photos on IWM website that caught evidence of this but it was too little of just one secondary turret to get a pattern.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:50 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
It would have been far easier to slap your logo on that drawing :big_grin:

Not all zones on the barrels are correct; it's very difficult to make out the contrast differences between MS3 and MS4.. some regions may require changes.


Also, there's also one error on Y-turret in that last one (colour filling error...) , use this one for reference

Attachment:
POW-playingarounds.jpg
Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:20 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
I forgot you had that version Evert-Jan. That saves me a lot of work redrawing. The gun barrels were not my idea of fun :big_grin:
Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:12 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
That data is all given in the original camouflage scheme.

Attachment:
camo_ms3ms4ms4a.jpg


(MS4a --> AP507C)
Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Hi,

We didn't really look at decks much but the steel decks appear to all be dark. I think it will be very difficult for anyone to tell you a dark grey is wrong.

I could make a second page showing extra details like the gun barrels, front of bridge, back of hangar bulkheads and tops of turrets (which had some camouflage carried over the top). Would people like that?

Lastly, Michiel at Naval Models from The Netherlands is making an order now for handover at Telford, so I hope to get NARNs to Europe with him.

:smallsmile:
Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:58 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Steel decks in NARN23 I presume ?

Also shall you give a better pic resolution for barrel camo ?

Thanks for all this work and waiting for EU continental stockists concerning new NARN range !
Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Hi folks, and EJ especially.

Apologies for my blunder, and thank you to dick for covering for me. I have been in London on a business trip (day-job stuff) and didn't have access to my home computer, software or the drawing file.

I have corrected my camouflage blunder on "Panel 20" near the stern on the port side, corrected my erroneous lines atop the bridge and changed the aftmost Oerlikon to a dark colour (I chose 507A to be consistent with the one next to it).

Image

I think this is probably as far as we can / are going to take this one, but it will be good to see the occassional model of Prince of Wales from now on painted in something that better resembles the colour cinefilm clip that survives rather than, for instance, the Tamiya instructions.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:32 pm
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Yes, re your first and second points.

Re the third observation, the third area of 507C on portside, yes: there was an error transposing from our drawing to his which Jamie will sort out when he gets home tomorrow.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:02 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Some comments:

There are three spots of 507C on the starboard side of the bridge; the top spot should be white as there is no ship there

Attachment:
pow1.jpg


I have no evidence of the after most 20mm gun tub being 507C; pics I have do show 507A on all tubs (well, something dark). There are lighter areas but those are the covers near the stairs?

Attachment:
pow2.jpg


On the aft port side hull there are now three 507C areas. I think the most forward one (below the main mast) should be MS4 as well. Note that on some pictures the contrast difference between MS3 and MS4 is negligible but both show quite well against 507C. This contrast difference is not observed for the most forward region?

(I agree with the additional spot of MS3 on B-barbette, port site)
Post Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:52 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Sutho wrote:
It is quite some time. I have been to Japan twice in the amount of times I have posted here.

Here is my take. It is credible and having not seen what the new MS4 tin looks like I have not had the ability to see it how you see it.

Either way it is not too much effort to change an already painted model by leaving the darker shades in place and altering the lighter two.

What I would like to know is how does your MS4 differ from the WEM variety, is it coming to Creative Models in Australia? and also is there a temporary mixing fix I could undertake with WEM MS4 to make it more like your current mix.

I admit that I had been weighing more towards a lighter tone for the lightest two colours but depending how you look at it the two colours seem similar anyway.


Hi Tony,

The new one is darker. The old product was approximately the tone 507C should have been:
Image

We've had no re-orders from Creative Models since the first. If you're not too fussy then a touch of black into the old RN12 or 13 or whatever it was (I've forgotten already!) will approximate the tone required. The new shade is closer to neutral grey than the old one which was bit more towards yellow and red, but addition of black or white will result in desaturation to a greater or lesser degree. If you have any old RN02 spare, a bit of that might be a good way to desaturate the old MS4 whilst desaturating as the blue in RN02 will offset the "warmth" in the WEM-era MS4.
Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:13 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
It is quite some time. I have been to Japan twice in the amount of times I have posted here.

Here is my take. It is credible and having not seen what the new MS4 tin looks like I have not had the ability to see it how you see it.

Either way it is not too much effort to change an already painted model by leaving the darker shades in place and altering the lighter two.

What I would like to know is how does your MS4 differ from the WEM variety, is it coming to Creative Models in Australia? and also is there a temporary mixing fix I could undertake with WEM MS4 to make it more like your current mix.

I admit that I had been weighing more towards a lighter tone for the lightest two colours but depending how you look at it the two colours seem similar anyway.
Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:56 pm
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Hi folks,

It's been quiet for a while, but we've been working away on this. Here's what we've come up with. I have missed EJ Foeth off the credits on this one so will update ASAP and rehost!

IMAGE DELETED FOR CORRECTION

Edit: EJ Foeth added to credits plus tiny tweak to pattern on starboard side superstructure ahead of S1 5.25" mount
Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:26 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
There are many plugins that simulate all kinds of films (e.g, http://www.psdfilm.com/black-white-film ... oshop.html) so if you know the spectral response of ww2 films it should be possible.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:44 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS Prince of Wales  Reply with quote
Tracy White wrote:
Sutho wrote:
I have again converted it to Black and White in Adobe Photoshop and taken patches of what was recorded to be the "unchallenged" colours HMS Belfast was supposed to be painted in.


Does photoshop create grayscale the same way WWII film did?


AFAIK no software truly mimics either orthochromatic or panchromatic film and their unique quirks (such as making blues appear lighter in panchromatic case or making yellows and reds look very dark in orthochromatic case), but rather averages the RGB colour coordinates out and applies the average to each, thus arriving at a "true" greyscale. Close enough when dealing with fairly neutral colours but not quite there
Post Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:10 am

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