The Ship Model Forum

Just a few more tweaks and additions. I added Norfolk 65A anti-fouling red. I needed it for a model I am working on! The miniatures I paint are all waterline so this is the first time this color came up for me. I tweaked Grigio-azzurro Chiaro (Light Blue-Grey for submarines) for the Regia Marina, and Kure Naval Arsenal Gray for the IJN. In aircraft I tweaked RAF Sky Type S (duck egg blue), and RAF light slate gray. By popular demand (and for my model project) I also added the post war USN ship colors for Haze Gray, Deck Gray, and Flight Deck Gray, plus a mix for Boeing Gray.

The file name is the same so the links to the http://Box.com document don't break. But you can find the version date of June 24, 2023 on page 25.

https://app.box.com/s/istm0needbufr1micfa71wvcgyfppi0a

[quote="Dadeo911"]Thank you very much for this list!

Take care,

Chris[/quote]

You are very welcome!

Thank you very much for this list!

Take care,

Chris

[quote="Wau_zim"]Have been using this reference to paint USN and IJN ships for Victory at Sea.
I am wondering what colour was used on the blast bags/covers where the USN and IJN main guns join the turret face?
Not sure if it is canvas or something else, but from photos it is much darker than the deck or horizontal surface colour.[/quote]

Japanese blast bags were standard off-white canvas. The canvas quickly darkened. I have seen a lot of illustrations and models with light tan colored blast bags. Blast bags on USN battleships and cruisers were rubberized canvas and painted black. Canvas on USN ships (boat covers, etc) was usually dyed the same dark blue as the decks.

Have been using this reference to paint USN and IJN ships for Victory at Sea.
I am wondering what colour was used on the blast bags/covers where the USN and IJN main guns join the turret face?
Not sure if it is canvas or something else, but from photos it is much darker than the deck or horizontal surface colour.

I have made a few updates to the tables. The Royal Netherlands Navy colors are now matched to the book "Dutch Warships of World War II" by van Willingenburg. I have updated the newer Royal Navy colors based on the research by Brown et al and Duff (Sovereign Hobbies) as discussed above. Also a few other color tweaks, corrections and additions.

The file name is the same (2019) so the links to the [url]http://Box.com[/url] document don't break. But you can find the version date of June 11, 2021 on page 24.

https://app.box.com/s/istm0needbufr1micfa71wvcgyfppi0a

[quote="Guest"]In the Vallejo Color guide, each of the japanese shipyards has an alternate grey without the blue tint. It says (B,C) - does that mean this alternate paint was used for Battleships and Cruisers only, or does it mean something completely different? I cannot find an explaination to the letters (so I assume it is so obvious to everyone else but me it isn't necessary...).

And how often, and why, was this alternate paint without blue tint used? Was this due to some kind of shortage of blue pigment during a certain period?[/quote]

The alternative colors are from the Snyder & Short color chips and are colors used by the IJN when they were short on blue pigment. Much like the USN did late in the war. Unfortunately, I have never found any detail information on exactly when the alternatives were used or on what ships. Given the state of the IJN late in the war I would imagine records would be very hard to find. For that matter, there seems to be a lot of debate on when the neutral grays were used on USN ships late in the war as well.

In the Vallejo Color guide, each of the japanese shipyards has an alternate grey without the blue tint. It says (B,C) - does that mean this alternate paint was used for Battleships and Cruisers only, or does it mean something completely different? I cannot find an explaination to the letters (so I assume it is so obvious to everyone else but me it isn't necessary...).

And how often, and why, was this alternate paint without blue tint used? Was this due to some kind of shortage of blue pigment during a certain period?

I also feel the need to remind everyone that I have no connections to Vallejo at all. I have never been in contact with them about this. I don't know if they even know if this chart exists. And if they do they probably cringe a little!

My apologies for taking so long to address this issue. I need to check this forum more often!

I agree 70.903 is definitely the wrong color. Looking at the older editions of this project it appears that was a "copy and paste" error as 903 was part of the old 507B mix.

I suggest trying a mix of 70.836 London Grey plus 70.869 Basalt grey at a 1:1 ratio. That appears to be very close to my eyes.

Those two colors plus the mix for 507C (907 + 990 2:1) seem to make a good representation of the Emergency Mix medium grey as well.

Let me know what you think of that match.

I will update the chart as soon as I finish a re-check on the French Air Force colors with a set of sample chips I recently acquired.

I have found the Vallejo Federal Standard numbers are a "rough match" in many cases. That is why I do not rely on them. Especially in the Model Color range. Their Model Air range seems to be more accurate.

[quote="mister me"]there must be a typo somewhere, as I cannot believe 507a/g10 alternative (2018 research) is somewhat similar to vallejo 903 !

can you confirm this point ?

thanx[/quote]

Obviously we played no part in compilation of any Vallejo equivalents. I'm not in the business of doing the competition's homework for them.

Comparisons to our research have probably been done visually and even then likely someone guesstimating from the illustrations on my website.

Assuming Vallejo's 903 matches one of the things it claims to be on the label, here's how it would compare to 2018 research 507B/507A/G10. It's labelled as "Intermediate Blue" and "FS36176" which are obviously distinctly different colours. Intermediate Blue is approximately equal to FS36164 whilst FS36176 is equivalent to Dark Gull Gray.

[img]https://www.snmstuff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/1970/01/VAL903.jpg[/img]

Naturally the paint inside can't match both of them and knowing Vallejo it probably doesn't suit either.

[img]http://village.photos/images/user/483a5850-3d62-4900-8176-6062170ac842/0007a506-5071-4c50-a439-f8d19e11a7dd.png[/img]

there must be a typo somewhere, as I cannot believe 507a/g10 alternative (2018 research) is somewhat similar to vallejo 903 !

can you confirm this point ?

thanx

I guess I should add that I continue to update this list because I mostly paint WWII miniatures. I use the Vallejo Model Color paints because they are optimally formulated for brush painting, are easily thinned for airbrush, and there is a wide range of colors to work with. I have no connection to Vallejo either monetarily or personally. I have been working on this chart (and releasing updates) for about 10 years now. Since retiring a couple of years ago I have also returned to some scale modeling. There are many alternative paint brands for the air force colors, but most of them are optimized for air brush and too thin for brush painting. Anyway, I have years of experience (and money) invested in my Vallejo paint collection so this is what I am most happy with using. I have purchased and used hobby paints from most of the major manufacturers and I have found them all to be of excellent quality. They simply have different characteristics that take a little practice to use optimally. It is also interesting to see how much variation there is between brands of paint that are listed as the same color. Not to mention the differences in paint chips for the same color in multiple references. There is obviously room for uncertainty and differences in interpretation.

Disclaimer: I am not a paint "historian" or researcher. I just attempt to match the colors that other researchers and references have provided. With all the variation out there I often just have to make my "best call" on a paint color. Your mileage may vary.

I would always be interested in hearing about alternative mixes.

I have significantly updated my Vallejo WWII color charts. In particular, I have added all of the WWII US Army Air Force and Navy/Marine colors and I have about doubled the number of Luftwaffe colors and updated the rest based on newly acquired references with paint chip samples. I have also added some of the newly revised Royal Navy colors that have been proposed by the excellent research done by the Royal Sovereign hobby guys. However, these are "best estimate" color matches based on their published internet documentation. I am in the United States so I cannot get the actual new Colourcoat paint samples that I would obviously like to use. I have also updated a scattering of other colors in the document.

The new link to the document is:

https://app.box.com/s/istm0needbufr1micfa71wvcgyfppi0a

Please let me know if you see any typos or errors. And I would always be interested in alternate color mix suggestions.

Here is a "change log" if you are interested.

Additions and changes to Vallejo WWII mixes – July 4, 2019

[b]Royal Navy[/b]

[i]Added[/i]
507A/G10 alternate
Emergency mix medium grey
507C/G45 alternate
Dark Deck Grey
B5/B15 alternate
G5

[i]Changed[/i]
Cemtex (late war)
G45 (1942)
B55 (1942)
G45 Neutral Tone (1943?)
B55 (1943)

[b]
United States Navy[/b]

[i]Changed[/i]
Cavite Blue
5-S Sea Blue B

[b]Italian Regia Marina[/b]

[i]Changed[/i]
Verde Chiaro

[b]Soviet Navy[/b]

[i]Added[/i]
Medium Blue Grey (Northern Fleet)

[i]Changed[/i]
Dark Grey
Tashkent Blue


[b]Colors for wood decking[/b]

[i]Added[/i]
Weather beaten deck tan

[b]Royal Air Force[/b]

[i]Changed[/i]
RAF Sky Type S
Middlestone

[b]United States Air Force and Navy/Marines[/b]

Newly expanded and updated

[b]Germany Luftwaffe[/b]

Newly expanded and updated

[b]Japan[/b]

[i]Changed[/i]

Light Ash Grey – “J3 towards Ameriro” for early war Zeke
Blue Black (cowling)

[b]Romanian Air Force[/b]

[i]Added[/i]

IAR 80 colors


Reference list expanded with new acquisitions. All references are in the personal collection of the author.

[quote="lgmccauley"]Was looking over your list and noticed on page 3 that you indicate using 964 + 816 at a 3:2 mix for USN 5N Navy Blue, but on page 5, under recommendations for measure 22, you show using 816 + 900 at a 3:1 mixing ratio for the 5N. Why the difference between the two 5N's?

Larry[/quote]

I just went back and looked at my swatches and the 964 + 816 at 3:2 is correct. The 816 + 900 was an earlier mix that was close, but too light. I forgot to update the painting recommendation. Thanks for catching that! I have fixed it for the next revision.

Mike

Was looking over your list and noticed on page 3 that you indicate using 964 + 816 at a 3:2 mix for USN 5N Navy Blue, but on page 5, under recommendations for measure 22, you show using 816 + 900 at a 3:1 mixing ratio for the 5N. Why the difference between the two 5N's?

Larry

I have updated my Vallejo WWII naval and air force paint equivalency tables once again. I have finally added the Italian Air Force colors. "Officially" this finally completes this project that I started about 9 years ago. Unofficially, I am always making little tweaks when I get new information. Plus I need to reorganize the US Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps air color section. It is a bit of a mess because I started with the USN/Marine Corps air colors (naturally) and then added Army Air Corps colors much later. The two services settled on a common set of colors in 1943 and that is not clear from the way I did the tables. Plus there are some Air Corps late war colors missing because of way I did it. Anyway, still a project for another day!

Updates in the January 2017 document:

1. I have finally added the Italian Air Force colors - Go Regia Aeronautica!
2. Added color mix for Royal Navy color B55
3. Revised some of the USN 1944/45 neutral gray mixes
4. Added Netherlands East Indies green camouflage colors (educated guesses)
5. Added Tashkent's "powder blue" color in Soviet navy section (another educated guess)

Here is the updated link to the file:

https://app.box.com/s/2hz3x8hp57kqk8qqyu40y0lndkdnc696

Note: You can tell what version of the tables you have by looking at the footnote at the bottom of the page that lists the references. I have put my initials "MSD" and the date the document created there. I have always done that. This latest is January 26, 2017.


Happy painting!

You guys are very welcome. I also couldn't get Colourcoats in the US. Also, I paint plastic miniatures that can flex a little, and I learned from other miniature painters that acrylics work best for that.

Well thank you for posting it. I found the list a couple days ago and have been putting the colors I need together for my current build.
I was going to post a link to the very same list on a thread I started yesterday.
Like others I can't get WEM colourcoats or Gunze so its Vallejo all the way...which is fine By brush or airbrush!

-Roger

After more than a year I have finally added the Japanese air forces to the tables. I also added the early war colors for the USAAF. Now I just have the late-war USAAF and the Regia Aeronautica remaining to be added. I also refined a few colors in the ship section including new and improved "guesses" for the French and Soviet navy, and a few tweaks to the Kriegsmarine Norway colors.

A special call out to Eric for coming up with the best mix for the Zeke's early war "Light Green Ash" color!

Let me know if you find any typos or mistakes.

https://app.box.com/s/e4lofe83j8n1gwrr7z9xqlguyvd8dosg

I also updated the link in the first post of thread.