The Ship Model Forum

The Block 4 and 5's are different in multiple ways:

The fwd MBT intakes are the same aft. This saves money by simplifying and standardizing the design.

The sail cap is different to accommodate the new radar, which is round, not rectangular as has been the case for decades with the BPS-15.

One optronic mast has been changed to a much lower profile style to minimize visibility.

Even the clamshell doors for the masts and antennas have been changed to rectangular, from the Y-shaped design.

Block 5 hulls will sport an extra vertical array nearly in-line with the aft end of the second hatch behind the sail. And of course, there's the VPM of which no pictures exist yet, just NAVSEA presentation renderings which vary.

EB will have more pics as the hull comes together during the next two years.

Here's a set of 1/72 masts and antennas I designed and printed recently based on the Block 4:

Having been overly committed to detailed drydock tours as SDO, I regularly crawled up the scaffolding and climbed into the propulsor. The screw sits basically centered in the shroud.

Dave

Yes, the boss is bolted to the rotor and rotates with it. For it to be stationary it would have to be attached to the duct with stator vanes or via a rigid shaft that goes through the main shaft and the reduction bull gear.

The ring ahead of the rotor contains the stator and is the forward-most part of the duct, which should give some indication of the rotor's position.

Jacob

A small detail, but as there are no post-screw-stators on the Virginias, is the screw boss trailing edge fixed, or attached to the screw (and thus rotates with the screw)?

Also, I note that most of the model kits seem to depict the screw being well aft in the shroud, like almost at the trailing edge of the shroud. Any ideas how realistic that is? Would expect the leading stators are designed to work in conjunction with the screw and thus the screw's proximity to them seems to make more sense?

Found this, seems to be about in the middle of the duct? 7-blades?

[url]https://i.imgur.com/x3997Xl.jpg[/url]

Hi Georgi,

I had a look at the rendering on your site, and while it generally looks pretty good, I have some suggestions:

Most models I have seen online (including the HobbyBoss kit) seem to stem from the same drawings which depict the Virginia without her hull coating. In reality the submarine's exterior surface after the hull coating is applied is very smooth, without the large rectangular raised sections present in these drawings. For example, there shouldn't be any significant raised detail on the top of the stern.

Most models don't represent the WAA well. The fairings are smooth and rounded:

[img]https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/hgnfghnnhg.jpg[/img]

And the spacing is often wrong, especially for the aft array. Note how the aft WAA fairing spreads out to accommodate the change in hull curvature at the stern. This drawing is very accurate in terms of hull shape (another common pitfall) and the depiction of the WAA fairings (note that the forward WAA fairing is about six feet further forward than a normal Virginia because of the LVA):

[url]https://i.imgur.com/7HJC9n5.png[/url]

Jacob

Thanks! The new Virginias have a number of external changes from the first two blocks. Besides the two large missile tubes in the bow, the towed array tube fairing is now no longer half round.

Azorian? I was involved for 5 years up to and including the release of the documentary film and the Norman Polar book. I was recruited by Michael White at the beginning of his journey to make the film. He is [u]the[/u] person who is most responsible for bringing the story to light in great detail.

That said, if I had to make a recommendation, I would say watch the film (the CGI is very good at visulazing the technical details) and read the book by David Sharp: "The CIA's Greatest Covert Operation: Inside the Daring Mission to Recover a Nuclear-Armed Soviet Sub". David was in the senior engineer in charge of the Heavy Lift System on the Glomar Explorer and gives a real insider account of the entire mission. His book was finally cleared by the CIA for publication after the film came out. Dave's book is available on Amazon.

The film is here on Amazon Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
The film trailer is here, which will give you some idea about the film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h6rGrzD2VY

In our store you can see only pictures of the old versions that have not been offered for a year or two. Renderings of the new one can be seen on our Facebook page. I don't put links on purpose, because then it would be advertising, and there are rules for that. What we are (literally right now) preparing is Block 3. With some quite interesting solutions. In the stern - everything except the vertical rudder is a separate detail. By the way, how deeply have you studied the Azorian project?

I just looked on your website and saw the Block I & II Virginias. Unfortunately the photos are too small to discern details. I could not see the anhedrals on the stern in any of the photos. Are they there or separate parts to be assembled onto the hull?

Do you plan to also do later Blocks like III and V?

Thanks!
Tom

[quote="razgrizbsg27"]Sadly OKB Grigorov has discontinued the 1/700 Resin Virginias, which were gorgeous, before I could get one. [/quote]
It's only been a year since your post... and we already have a new version of the model. Completely redone, more and finer details...just mentioning...actually yesterday we printed the new master model :)

That looks awesome. I truly appreciate Otto's attention to detail.

Dave

Hi all, I received an updated image from Oto at RCSUBS.CZ on the Block III Virginia main ballast tank forward flood vents. He's completed this for the 1/72 version and will have the 1/144 version completed by Monday. Thanks for the feedback from the group and especially thanks to Oto for taking the time to make this change. :thumbs_up_1:

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52298607919_c180f4fa8b_c.jpg[/img]

Saving that for pier side diorama possibilities if nothing else.....

[quote="Vepr157"]Another good reference for those wanting to model the Virginia is this study, which has some great drawings:

https://www.compositesworld.com/cdn/cms/uploadedfiles/deep_draft_camel_study.pdf

They are a bit bare-bones, but the drawings are quite accurate in regard to hull form and also location of appendages and deck features. It also has some features of other classes that you rarely see in model kits, like the slight taper of the Ohio's sail above the fairwater planes.

Jacob[/quote]

Holy crap...I didn't realize there was so much to say about camels

Dave

Wow, look away from the forums for a couple days and you miss a ton. Happy to help with any projects.

As Vepr said, Blk III and IV are virtually indistinguishable (similar for I and II). For LVA on SDK, they are not symmetrical...port and starboard don't match.

I have plenty of VACL pictures and am happy to support where I can.

I need to get a new hosting site to be able to post some stuff.

Dave

Another good reference for those wanting to model the Virginia is this study, which has some great drawings:

https://www.compositesworld.com/cdn/cms/uploadedfiles/deep_draft_camel_study.pdf

They are a bit bare-bones, but the drawings are quite accurate in regard to hull form and also location of appendages and deck features. It also has some features of other classes that you rarely see in model kits, like the slight taper of the Ohio's sail above the fairwater planes.

Jacob

Wow that looks great Given that there are no public details about the Seawolf pumpjet beyond the fact that it has a rotor between two stators, I think this is a very plausible-looking model. One thing to check is the size of the duct against satellite images (if you haven't done that already). The Greg Sharpe Seawolf drawing that's out there appears to be remarkably accurate in many respects, but the duct is way too short (and I think the real one looks to have a fair bit of camber to the duct section).

Yeah, the Virginia pumpjet just has a stator upstream of the rotor.

Jacob

Two years ago I started thinking about an upgrade to the 1/350 Bronco Seawolf model, part of which entailed reworking the pumpjet. Going back and forth with Jacob Gunnarson (apologies, I have this disconnect between forum names and real names and don't recall his forum name) to at least hash out the basics (and get some of the really bad concepts out of the way), I ended up with this; 11 blade screw with 19 pre-stators and post-13 stators. Trying to re-read and baseline emails from 2 years ago and I'm not sure I executed correctly what Jacob was saying, but at least it's miles better from where I started:

[img]https://www.mulsannescorner.com/models/Submarines/Screws/Seawolf_class_pumpjet/Screenshot%202022-08-16%20175109.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.mulsannescorner.com/models/Submarines/Screws/Seawolf_class_pumpjet/Screenshot%202022-08-16%20175132.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.mulsannescorner.com/models/Submarines/Screws/Seawolf_class_pumpjet/Screenshot%202022-08-16%20175153.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.mulsannescorner.com/models/Submarines/Screws/Seawolf_class_pumpjet/Screenshot%202022-08-16%20175031.jpg[/img]

The second issue, and where this ultimately stalled, was working out how to print this so that the support structure didn't obliterate the details. Anyhow, I can imagine the Virginia class' pumpjet would basically be similar barring no stators aft of the screw, I think that was my takeaway from Jacob?

davidwaples,

Nice work! In regard to the flood holes, there is a second group for MBT3 located at about the same distance back as the sail fillet. All of the forward flood holes have the splitter design (not sure why some of the aft ones on the MBT1/2 group don't have them in the photo above). This video has a view good views of them (also note the WLY-1 dome next to the MBT3 group):

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMRFG5av-rc[/url]

You're right, the aft group of flood holes looks the same as the previous Blocks with the perforated grating cover, as evidenced by this photo (note the anchor; the SPM/SPU opening is on the other side):

[url]http://navsource.org/archives/08/780/0878505w.jpg[/url]

Block IV is easy to model, because as far as I'm aware they are externally identical to the Block III. You could probably make a pretty good Block V from two sources of information, this EB slide and these photos I took of a (seemingly very accurate) Block V model at the Pearl Harbor museum:

[url]https://i.imgur.com/7hYkuss.jpg[/url]
[url]https://imgur.com/a/KXPnjPG[/url]

You can get a better view of the LVA here:

[url]https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6858405/uss-south-dakota-ssn-790-change-command-ceremony[/url]

ModelMonkey,

If you used that drawing of the South Dakota above, you'd end up with a very accurate hull form. The appendages are the wrong size, but the hull and WAA faring forms are exactly correct. The position of the forward WAA arrays is a bit further forward (~6 feet) than on other Virginias to avoid interference with the LVA.

In terms of the propulsor, there is unclassified material sufficient to make a decent representation. There are a few photos on navsource that show the rotor on the nearly complete submarine draped in a tarp, and you can get an idea of the number and shape of the blades. NNS also leaves a few rotors and stators outside the building hall in tarps that can be found using google earth (you might have to use the feature of google earth to wind back time for the image date).

Jacob

Edit: And just to be clear, no classified information here ;)

I've sent the photos that show (what there is to show) of the bow main ballast tank flood holes, or whatever they are called today. I think I have it pretty close and the rest needs to be interpreted from photos. Keep in mind that I don't have a good CAD package and this is about as good as I can do with the limited resources I have. Please be kind! I laid these over Oto's current plans. I have no personal interest in this project except that I'm like most of you and would like a good product which I believe Oto delivers.

What is unclear are the coverings of the four most aft vents and if there are any more vents past what is shown in the photos already provided. Also the finished covering of those vents. The aft vents according to photos I've seen of Block III seem to be unchanged. If anyone can show anything different please let me know.

Anyway, comments are welcome.

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52290148646_4ed87b8094_b.jpg[/img]

Hi Steve,
I think a proper 1/350 Virginia Class would be great. You may want to see if you can work something out with Oto Gerza with RCSUBS as he's done the lions share of the work already. I'm not sure if he's interested but I don't think he has any ambitions to work with 1/350 models on his own. If you would like an introduction let me know.

I don't think there's much controversy about what Oto has done. There's some discussion about the bow section. However looking at drawings on the web there are a lot of inconsistencies. Photos can suffer from distortion. I've sent him the information about the updated bow flood holes. The aft seem to be unchanged. You might try reaching out to General Dynamics Electric Boat.

My favorite source of photos is seaforces.org. They have excellent high resolution photos that show a lot of detail, short of the propulsor.

Hard to know what block IV and V will really look like. The idea has been made public, but they have not been built yet so anything is just speculation. I would concentrate on a Block II and/or Block III.

Dave