The Ship Model Forum

by **ssn705** » Sun Jan 11, 2026 11:08 am

I have looked at those same booklets and never noticed that before. I guess I was focused on other things at the time. Nifty little resource and it fits with the drawings I started to gen up.

Dave

by **Vepr157** » Sun Jan 11, 2026 3:11 am

Dave,

I also found that the ONI Submarine Sighting Guides have some small drawings that look reasonably accurate:

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/da ... .1.pdf.pdf

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/da ... 2A.pdf.pdf

The plan view in the first booklet shows the outline of the trough in the deck.

Jacob

by **ssn705** » Sat Jan 10, 2026 8:24 pm

Jacob,
I have seen the ice one before, but now , thinking about the trench, the flow and movement of ice makes sense too. Other one is new to me.

Time to do some measuring.

Thanks for posting.

Dave

by **Vepr157** » Sat Jan 10, 2026 7:26 pm

Looking through my files, I found these two photos which give a (very slightly) better view of the notch in the superstructure:

https://i.imgur.com/Q8FqPRY.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/bhEBoME.jpeg

Jacob

by **ssn705** » Sat Jan 10, 2026 7:08 pm

And the opening trench now makes the shadows in this picture https://www.navsource.net/archives/08/0831321.jpg (also posted by Tom above) make more sense.

Dave

by **ssn705** » Sat Jan 10, 2026 7:03 pm

Jacob,
That photo and your assessment totally blew my mind. I don't know how I didn't make that connection. In the back of my engineering brain, I have always sorta wondered about the movement of the door since it was side opening. Now to sketch it out.

Thanks,

Dave

by **Vepr157** » Sat Jan 10, 2026 6:24 pm

Dave, that's a keen observation; I had never noticed that before!

I suspect that there was a trough in the deck aft of the hangar to allow the hangar door to open as the hangar was recessed into the deck. You only see a notch in the starboard superstructure because the hangar swung open in that direction. Here's a photo which shows what I mean:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7576826

When the hangar was removed it seems that this trough was plated over so that just a flat deck remained. The hangar on the SSGs (which was derived from the SSP hangar) had a door that opened upward, so no such trough in the deck was required.

Jacob

by **Tom Dougherty** » Sat Jan 10, 2026 12:07 pm

Photo of Perch from a rear, overhead view and another forward view. The rear view shows that area in some detail.

by **ssn705** » Fri Jan 09, 2026 7:16 pm

Probably a stretch with this one, but looking to see if any one has info on PERCH (APSS 313) in the Korean War timeframe. Specifically interested in any further detail/description of the starboard side of the main deck outboard of the deck shelter. A couple pics show a step down ( maybe to facilitate embarking/debarking small boats) but without great detail. Any detail, thoughts, pics appreciated.

Best pic of it is here (Navsource):

https://navsource.net/archives/08/312/0831334.jpg

You can see a guy standing in it. I assume it is likely steps down the sloped sides and probably a vertical bulkhead inboard.

Once the deck shelter is gone, the step is gone too.

Cheers

Dave

by **Corky** » Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:59 pm

USS Bowfin (SS-287) Lindberg,

by **maccrage** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:11 pm

41 Gato is definitely a better starting point.

by **maccrage** » Fri May 28, 2021 2:08 pm

Yeah, definitely still wrong, but easier to fix, wince I won't have to rescribe all the steel deck into planking. Judging from the overhead image of Barbero, her deck matches the Icefish layout on the plans you provided.

by **Tom Dougherty** » Wed May 26, 2021 8:39 am

I just PM'ed you. I have the Balao Deck plans reproduced as high resolution digital files.

Deck on the 1941 kit looks to be just as wrong as the later model. Postwar safety railing and wrong emergency marker buoy. Two of the hatches are wrong.
I would bet that both were based on the AFV master model makers looking at museum submarines, and being unaware of the postwar modifications made in the late 1940's, early 1950's. Contemporary WW II photos would have cleared that up for them. The Floating Dry-dock plan book for Gato & Baloa submarines also has the correct deck outfitting.

by **maccrage** » Mon May 24, 2021 6:41 pm

Ordered the 1941 AFV Gato. Much less deck fixing to do, and it looks like hull-wise all I should need to add besides the flood vents and exhausts will be the steps added above the limber holes.

by **maccrage** » Mon May 24, 2021 2:33 pm

Beautiful.

by **maccrage** » Mon May 24, 2021 12:40 pm

That would be excellent. I'm actually working on 2 Barbero's. 1/350 and 1/72 rc.

by **Tom Dougherty** » Mon May 24, 2021 9:07 am

Barbero was an EB boat, and the AFV 1943 Gato hull is correct, except the deck. Looks like a whole rescribing job.

Wow, I don�t have the AFV Gato, so I looked at the kit online. You are correct, the deck has huge mistakes!! First, it is definitely a deck on a post war Gato/Balao, with safety harness railings and a different deck emergency buoy. The WWII Gatos did not have the safety rail. Also the hatch just aft of the sail should be: 1.) Just slightly off center, not as far as the deck edge, and 2.) it is a flush mounting that fits into the deck, not a hatch that sticks up above the deck. The deck cover over the hatch has a rectangle shape with a half circle at one end. All you see is that shape outlined on deck. The same flush mount for the hatch over the engine room. The only two deck hatches that stick above deck are the forward and aft torpedo room hatches, which are escape trunks.

I have the old Floating Drydock Gato and Balao plan book. Let me know if you want any of the deck drawings from it for your project.

by **maccrage** » Sun May 23, 2021 2:36 pm

Finally solved the last mystery for Barbero, the location of the deck gun. Found an overhead picture, and the 4" is forward.

by **ModelMonkey** » Sun May 23, 2021 12:34 pm

maccrage wrote:
ModelMonkey wrote:Links fixed, try her again, Tom.

And thanks!

I hope to have a Lionfish fairwater done soon. It has different features than that of USS Balao.
Just ordered the Lionfish fairwater for my AFV 1943 Gato.

Thanks so much!

by **maccrage** » Sat May 22, 2021 1:50 pm

Barbero was an EB boat, and the AFV 1943 Gato hull is correct, except the deck. Looks like a whole rescribing job.

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