by wefalck » Wed May 06, 2026 5:21 am
Sorry, but your post is a bit confusing. 'Hochseeflotte' was an operational denomination used by the Imperial German Navy from 1907 until its end in 1919. So I don't understand your reference to WW2 colour schemes.
(Museum-)models are not necessarily a good colour reference. There is no guarantee that the original colours were used, in particular in the days before the RAL references were introduced in 1927. I don't know the model of SMS GRAUDENZ (1913) im Maritimen Museum Hamburg (MHH), but if it is an original builder's model, we don't know how the paints have hold on in the 113 years since its construction. At that time only oil-based paints were available and lineseed oil yellows with age, which may lead to yellowish tint in lighter colours.
I assume, that you only have seen photographs of SMS GRAUDENZ and that you were not able to inspect the model in person? Unless photographs were taken under studio conditions with a careful neutral white illumination, all sorts of tints may appear in amateur photographs taken in a museum, particularly also, when there is a mixture of daylight and artificial light.
I am not sure, whether and when pre-mixed paints were available/used by the Imperial German Navy. Usuall paints were mixed from prescribed ratios of incredients on board and at the shipyards. During WW1 supplies became irregular and the quality of some pigments and other incredients degraded, leading to a deviation in hue relative to the ordinances. For this reason (later) war-time photographs are not necessarily a reliable reference - a part from the fact that no colour photography was available during WW1.
Gröner and the group that continued his work after his death (the first volumes of a new, enlarged edition have been published last year) are probably the best reference, as he could still draw on information that then has been lost during WW2. I would assume that his colour schemes are in principle correct, though in detail, individual ships may have deviated somewhat for a variety of reasons.
In essence, there is little point in getting worked up about the exact hues of particular colours in the days before standard reference charts and samples were introduced. I know this from experience, when I tried to determine the evolution of the 'buff' colour used in the second half of the 19th century by the German navies.
Sorry, but your post is a bit confusing. 'Hochseeflotte' was an operational denomination used by the Imperial German Navy from 1907 until its end in 1919. So I don't understand your reference to WW2 colour schemes.
(Museum-)models are not necessarily a good colour reference. There is no guarantee that the original colours were used, in particular in the days before the RAL references were introduced in 1927. I don't know the model of SMS GRAUDENZ (1913) im Maritimen Museum Hamburg (MHH), but if it is an original builder's model, we don't know how the paints have hold on in the 113 years since its construction. At that time only oil-based paints were available and lineseed oil yellows with age, which may lead to yellowish tint in lighter colours.
I assume, that you only have seen photographs of SMS GRAUDENZ and that you were not able to inspect the model in person? Unless photographs were taken under studio conditions with a careful neutral white illumination, all sorts of tints may appear in amateur photographs taken in a museum, particularly also, when there is a mixture of daylight and artificial light.
I am not sure, whether and when pre-mixed paints were available/used by the Imperial German Navy. Usuall paints were mixed from prescribed ratios of incredients on board and at the shipyards. During WW1 supplies became irregular and the quality of some pigments and other incredients degraded, leading to a deviation in hue relative to the ordinances. For this reason (later) war-time photographs are not necessarily a reliable reference - a part from the fact that no colour photography was available during WW1.
Gröner and the group that continued his work after his death (the first volumes of a new, enlarged edition have been published last year) are probably the best reference, as he could still draw on information that then has been lost during WW2. I would assume that his colour schemes are in principle correct, though in detail, individual ships may have deviated somewhat for a variety of reasons.
In essence, there is little point in getting worked up about the exact hues of particular colours in the days before standard reference charts and samples were introduced. I know this from experience, when I tried to determine the evolution of the 'buff' colour used in the second half of the 19th century by the German navies.