The Ship Model Forum

Rick E Davis wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:09 pm JPK,

Hank's build has a lot of detail on building a "post-WWII" FLETCHER. MANY things would apply to USS KIDD @ late 1945. But, a lot doesn't. Hank and Wiley are doing "Ultimate" model-building, which is beyond a lot of peoples capabilities. You can spend a lot to upgrade the kit or just enough to get the basics right. But, given that the Revell 1/144 scale kit depicts an EARLY Round-Bridge FLETCHER with many errors (wrong Mk 37 director, should be a SQUARE-BACK one and NO one bridge equipment), you will need to replace or modify almost everything of the superstructure above the main and 01 deck levels. ModelMonkey makes those parts, but the cost will not be cheap. Replacements for 40-mm (twin and quad) and 20-mm (twin) guns, will be harder to get. BlackCat makes really nice twin 20-mm mounts (with Mk 14 gunsight) in 144 scale. I can't keep up with which 3-D printer firms have parts available, so I'm unsure who makes the 40-mm mounts in this scale.

Rick

Hi to all. Resurrecting on old post on converting the Revell 1/144 Fletcher to a square bridge Fletcher. In this case, the USS Kidd again. Since the last post on the subject and after purchasing many items from both Model Monkey AND Distefan, I have found another 3D print supplier of ship parts. Swordfish Models supplies many items and in many scales for naval subjects. I have been in touch personally with the vendor and he is very open to creating new items. I find his items are quite a bit more detailed than the other two vendors in 1/144 scale. He does print in other scales as well and not just USN subjects. He has an nice selection of items for the Revell kit for the conversion. Just wanted to promote a vendor that I am very happy with.

Yessir, those photos will do fine. Thank you.

These may help with your D.C. rack question: Hope this helps!

Trying to sort out the aft deck around the triple Oerlikon mount(SF built squarebridge) can anyone help with a drawing or photo? Any help with the DC rack shelf/ extension on the fantail would be a great help as well.

Thanks for the replies. I'm sourcing 3dp parts for my Square bridge conversion. The deck will need a fair bit of rework. I notice in examining color photos, the non skid in hardly visible, if at all.
I selected Hazelwood because of the 24d scheme, so the info regarding the guntubs, and paint in general, is aporeciated. The timeframe in which she wore the24d is my weathering guide. I expect this to take a bit to complete, so want to "get it as right" as my meager skills allow.

Just a thought to add to Rick's, those molded on walkways are way over scale! In practice the stick-on material only stood off the deck a few millimeters. Those molded on things are like inches thick, very inaccurate. If you really want to accurize the Revell kit, sand them off and paint the appropriate walkway pattern.

Killerbeans,

First off, at 1/144 scale you apparently are working with the REVEL kit? If so you do realize that that kit is for a ROUND-BRIDGE unit? Plus, they have some big errors (the use of the wrong Mk 37 angle-back director not used on ANY Fletcher instead of the squad-back director is the biggest "how did the miss that?").

Now then for walkways on your kit, the molded on walkways applied by modeling firms frequently aren't accurate. Certainly at least not for ALL units in the class. There were walkways and they in general were more or less in the same locations. But, with different upgrades and refits at different yards, they sometimes were relocated. Some were "solid" material "painted" on and others were a series of rectangular pads applied in rows.

For how long did HAZELWOOD have her Ms32/24D? HAZELWOOD had completed a refit in September 1943, before dazzle was being applied. According to C. Lee Johnson's research, HAZELWOOD was assigned this scheme in in June 1944 (Reassigned to this new Design by the BuShips 6/10/44 memo to ComServPac that listed ships that had been reassigned from the 10/11/43 letter #0937.) Given that there would be a delay after that date to actually get the PAINTS and DESTROYER in the same place, and that the earliest date I have of HAZELWOOD image in dazzle dates from September 1944, there is a lot of error in a guess of when the Ms was applied from likely July to early September 1944.

And another: is there any way to know how long Hazelwood wore her 24d paint? My best guess is 9-10 months.
How weathered would she be in that time at sea?

Next question: There are walkways molded into the deck of the 1/144 kit. Decals are provided in a black grey, yet examination of photos yields little evedence of contrast with the 20b Deck Blue. Again for Hazelwood.

Thanks Rick. After some study, I see Hazelwood is not painted strictly according to guidlines, which was allowed. IE: the entire bow was deck blue, no Ocean Grey.
I'm going to go with Light Grey & Dull Black for the dazzle, and tub/ interior bulkhead/ overhangs all Light Grey. Unless I see evidence to the contrary!
Thanks for the link.

Martin,

Trouble is, from the damage photos of USS HAZELWOOD, you can see that on the starboard side forward 40-mm mount "tub", that the exterior is painted white while the interior has canvas covers in dark (black?), with unknown paint underneath. No matter what the dazzle (otherwise known as the "come and hit me Kamikazes" ) camo "rules" were, they weren't followed perfectly many times (if ever?).

Killerbeans,

This website has probably the best info on the dazzle paint schemes, specifically here for USS HAZELWOOD ... https://www.usndazzle.com/ship.php?id=460 ... you will note that nothing specifies what the insides of "tubs" or behind any bulwarks were to be painted. The overhead drawing shows that for this scheme, the majority of the decks were painted Deck Blue.

Thank you for the response. Nav Source has a few photos of the 24d scheme, more study!

Killerbeans wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2026 6:30 am What color would the inner face of the bofor tubs be? I'm building Hazelwood, in her 24d scheme, so I assumed various undersides would be 5L light grey, bridge wings, etc. but not so sure now.

Generally speaking, the exterior color of a gun tub carried over into the interior.

Can't speak to countershading - I'm not sure when that started to come into effect.

If anyone would know, it would @Tracy White.

First off, I don't know if there was a standard camo doctrine for painting the insides of the "tubs" bulwarks in the Dazzle schemes.

There are at least two things to consider, what was the exterior of the "tubs" painted? And realize that the 40-mm bulwarks had canvas cover panels that went over the 40-mm round clips to protect them. What these canvas covers were painted (or maybe not) will determine what color the interior and exterior of the bulwarks (depending if the mounts are active) appeared to be.

Normally I would simply say I have no idea of what the interiors were painted to. Given the "things to consider" and other unknowns, it is next to know the answer without photos. Since most photos of destroyers are broadside when the interiors of "tubs" can't be seen, finding photos useful for this effort is nearly impossible. Also, with the canvas cover panels being used to protect the 40-mm rounds, they can't be seen when the ship is NOT in combat. However, you are somewhat lucky with USS HAZELWOOD. There are photos of HAZELWOOD taken from alongside after her kamikaze damage which sort of freeze frames what parts of HAZELWOOD looked like. See attached.

Here you can see her canvas cover panels are flipped over the bulwarks showing what those were painted. Exact colors are difficult to be identified, but you get the idea of what shades were used. Plus, in at least one case, it appears that a canvas panel is white or natural and not painted when the other cover panels are painted. These two photos don't show all the mounts, but gives you an idea.

What color would the inner face of the bofor tubs be? I'm building Hazelwood, in her 24d scheme, so I assumed various undersides would be 5L light grey, bridge wings, etc. but not so sure now.

Thank you again, sir. I'll look into that. Tbis entire Fletcher thing is a rabbit hole of some depth!

Black Cat makes very nice 40-mm and 20-mm guns and other finer detailed equipment that can be used on FLETCHER kits.

Thanks for the reply and info, Rick. I saw a webpage that had DD info, including fit for weapons and even radar, but lost it. I've chosen MM parts for my conversion, but can't find any 40mms other than DStefan. Any help appreciated. I figure build configuration, weapons configuration, radar and paint. Anything I missed?

“As built” by Beth-SF, the FLETCHER’s would be the same. Except when there was a configuration change ( like going from three twin 40-mm mounts to five or then upgrading to the Anti-Kamikaze mod ). The first three Beth-SF built FLETCHER's, (DD-526-528), have quite unique bridge configurations not seen on any other FLETCHER's.

One unique feature seen on Beth-SF and most Beth-SP built units was a rub strake along the midship section. (Some Fletchers worked on by Beth-SF also had a rub stake added).

Also, there were changes (upgrades) to the bridge configuration. Look at photos of unit(s) you are thinking of building.

Something I forgot to mention earlier about converting options of 1/350 scale FLETCHERS, was I kit bashed the Tamiya and Trumpeter Fletcher kits to get what I wanted. Trumpeter has a water-line option and Tamiya doesn’t. However I limited my builds (two; USS CHEVALIER (DD-451) and USS SIGSBEE (DD-502) in Anti-Kamikaze mod) with these two kits because of so many problems with both kits and for a long time no upgrade options for Square-Bridge configurations. How, ModelMonkey has Square-Bridge upgrades, I just never have gotten around to ordering all the parts I would need yet. I’m doing the same bashing with the STEVENS kit to get my desired waterline model (and not dealing with the battleship armor belt seen on the iLove kit. When the iLove FLETCHER original configuration kit is available, I may do bashing projects with that kit. Will depend on what additional options they offer of the FLETCHER Kit line. All the Trumpeter "THE SULLIVANS" 1/350 scale kits I have will be turned into parts sources, primarily the waterline hulls.

At one point I heard that a Square-Bridge FLETCHER with five twin 40mm mounts configuration (USS JOHNSTON was mentioned) and a post-WWII THE SULLIVANS as she appears as a museum were planned, a 4-Gun version with three twin 3-in/50 RFG mounts. But, whether these are just rumors or real plans I don’t know. Since iLove is a division of Trumpeter and Trumpeter has been producing the same versions of FLETCHERS as iLove, except in 1/200 scale AND they have already advertised THE SULLIVANS kit, it could happen.

In trying to build a SF built square bridge, circa '44, would it be safe to say they (SF built) were fairly consistant?
I was gifted a 1/144 kit, 3/4 built, missing parts, hence the square bridge conversion. I think AA, and radar would be the most obvious details?