The Ship Model Forum

[quote="David Sandifer" post_id=1114810 time=1788754434 user_id=1533]
Hi, Mike on 11JUN and Dick on 13JUN,
I have the resin kit#YKM-35108 that, with help from Jon Warneke at Iron Shipwrights, I was able to modify to the JAN1944 Allen M. Sumner of the original British bridge (692-695 and 722-723) design. You're right about the bulkheads and D-shaped structures not being part of the original design, so a knife blade will eliminate those. Jon's bridge also has more portholes foward - three on the face and four on the obliques. Jon's also has a step down to the pilot house for that extra half deck.
There is a good description of the SIX British designs in Robert F. Sumrall's Sumner-Gearing Class Destroyers, ISBN 0 85177 657 4, on pp26-42.
Thank you for your comments about the new Triumph Model 1/350 kit. My curiosity in the 3D craftsmanship might lead to a new addition to the stash.
[/quote]
We received one to review from Triumph models. Look for the review in the next few months on the main page.
[attachment=0]TriumphKits.jpg[/attachment]

Hi, Mike on 11JUN and Dick on 13JUN,
I have the resin kit#YKM-35108 that, with help from Jon Warneke at Iron Shipwrights, I was able to modify to the JAN1944 Allen M. Sumner of the original British bridge (692-695 and 722-723) design. You're right about the bulkheads and D-shaped structures not being part of the original design, so a knife blade will eliminate those. Jon's bridge also has more portholes foward - three on the face and four on the obliques. Jon's also has a step down to the pilot house for that extra half deck.
There is a good description of the SIX British designs in Robert F. Sumrall's Sumner-Gearing Class Destroyers, ISBN 0 85177 657 4, on pp26-42.
Thank you for your comments about the new Triumph Model 1/350 kit. My curiosity in the 3D craftsmanship might lead to a new addition to the stash.

The config is similar to that of the very earliest completed ships, but still has inaccuracies. As first designed, there was a narrow upper open bridge behind the pilothouse, and there were bridge wings at pilothouse level. But the narrow upper open bridge was about a half deck level higher than the pilothouse and bridge wings. The bulkheads you reference on the kit seem to be slightly too close to the centerline and don't seem to form the boundary between different levels. When the original bridge design proved to be too cramped, the bridge wings were essentially raised to the upper bridge level with the dividing bulkheads eliminated. This change proved to be insufficient, and so the bridge was totally redesigned into the late war config with an open bridge around the front of the relocated pilothouse. Most Sumners and all of the wartime Gearings completed to this last config.

All:

Triumph Model will be releasing a 1/350 kit of DD-692 USS Allen Sumner with resin, 3D printed, and PE components. It looks marvelous, but I am wondering about the accuracy of the bridge area. Allen Sumner was initially built with a British-style bridge, but if you look at this build of the kit, there are two bulkheads that run fore to aft just inside the bridge wings and outside the Mk. 37 director platform that terminate toward the aft end of the bridge with D-shaped tubs surrounding what might be a large mounted naval binocular. I can't find any plans or photos that show the bulkheads and tubs. Is this correct? And for those who know this class well, does the model look accurate?

See photos below:

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1329807525991062&set=pcb.1329808742657607

For those who don’t have a Facebook account, see here:

https://www.hobbyeasy.com/en/page/data_image.html?code=y0smcz0chpcwnpcvrgin&image=/upload/suppliers/VIVAN/TM35007D.jpg

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Mike E.

From top deck by bridge.
For lack of knowing proper name the same deck as smokestacks is attached. I'm building a model of the USS Laffey DD-724. I made one many years ago out of match sticks which was ok. Now wanting to make a better, more accurate one but hard to get good pics of the Laffey and dimensions. What I found, the mast would be 90 ft at that point. Sound, right? Making it with wood.

height of mast from what part of the ship, main deck, waterline & bottom of keel? top of which smoke stack, forward of aft?

Would 90ft be about right for mast?
Now confused. Found another place says 30ft.

what time period are you looking for, ww2 or post ww2?
DD-692 USS Allen M Sumner Booklet of General Plans (1968) https://archive.org/details/dd692bogp1968

How tall would the mast be on a sumner destroyer, like the USS Laffey? And smokestack height?
Should have added DD-724 , WW2.

Thought I'd ask in destroyer forum. I'm looking for a moder for a sumner class destroyer that I could use to copy and make a model of the USS Laffey. Any suggestions?

I agree that is a Fletcher class destroyer.

Great video - except the DD in the video is clearly a Fletcher rather than a Sumner.

Destroyers Allen M. Sumner-class Wallace L. Lind (DD 703) refueling in a heavy sea off Saigon circa.

January 13, 1945.

Full movie: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/77947

[youtube]2sUvXmyA5Ys[/youtube]

The Takom/Snowman 1/700 scale GEARING Class model out-of-the-box is a basic Fleet Destroyer configuration as the first units were completed. Starting in April 1945 (not every unit got this upgrade that soon) the GEARINGS replaced the aft torpedo tubes bank with a quad 40-mm mount as part of the Anti-Kamikaze Program. Snowman/Takom issued this kit as USS FRANK KNOX (DD-742) with a dry-dock built at Boston Navy Yard and USS SOUTHERLAND (DD-743), but only have the decals for DD-743. Both of these destroyers were converted to DDR configuration after shakedown at Boston Navy Yard (BosNY). The DDR configuration initially replaced the forward torpedo tube mount with a tripod mast for a radar antenna. When the Anti-Kamikaze program upgrade was applied to the DDR and Fleet destroyers, the aft torpedo tube mount was replaced with a quad 40-mm mount. The Takom kit DOES NOT include parts for the DDR conversion or the Anti-Kamikaze AA upgrade.

About the only versions of GEARINGS this kit can be built to out-of-the-box, are the early units prior to the Anti-Kamikaze mod or DDR conversion. Many early units were completed by their builder in the original configuration as see in this kit. But, before going to the Pacific and operational use, they had the Anti-Kamikaze mod upgrade done whether a Fleet Destroyer or a DDR, except for two DDR's that went to the war zone while retaining the aft torpedo tubes.

Your main interest unit, USS EVERTT F. LARSON (DD-830) was built by Bath Iron Works (BIW) and was delivered to the USN at BosNY and commissioned in the original configuration. (She was the 14th GEARING class unit commissioned) I have notes on the Anti-Kamikaze program upgrades for this class, but can't lay my hands on them right now. But, I'm pretty sure given the date she was commissioned, USS EVERTT F. LARSON likely went on a shakedown cruise and upon her return went into BosNY for conversion to a DDR. From photos ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0583005.jpg ... , you can see that she was painted in Ms 21 (likely 5-N not NG) when delivered. In other words, EVERTT F. LARSON was only in the original configuration for a couple of months in early 1945.

The USS GOODRICH (DD-831), a sister of EVERETT F. LARSON built at BIW right after her (she was the 16th GEARING commissioned). Like her BIW sister, she was delivered in the original configuration and was also painted in Ms 21. ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0583114.jpg ... She is your best option, since the other two were not in the original configuration as commissioned.

If you would register to this website, you would be able to see images of these two that I could post if they would be of help.

Dear Mr. Davis,

Thank you kindly for your response I definitely plan on building the DD-830 and deciding on the second one to build between the remaining three. Based on the USS Frank Knox DD-742 1/700 kit by Takom.

What I wish to know boils down to "can I build the model of any of the aforementioned ships based on the kit with minimal alterations?". Hence the inquiry on specs.

Just,

Before I spend a lot of time doing detailed Research for you on your question, I need more info. What are your plans for knowing this info on the four GEARINGS you list? Are you planning on modeling all four or trying to decide on which to build? Or do you have other reasons?

Three of the four GEARINGS in your list were converted to what were eventually nomenclatured as DDR's. The Radar Picket conversions were done on 24 units. They were selected and ordered converted in two 12 unit batches. The three DDR units you have listed ... DD-830, 831, and 880 ... were all from the second batch of 12. The selected units for DDR conversion were built at two yards, either Bath Iron Works or at Consolidated Steel, Orange, TX. All of the units were converted or completed conversion at either Boston or Norfolk Navy Yards. The fourth unit on your list was completed as a straight destroyer. Since you have units from each category in your list, answers will vary.

Your question asks for info "AS OF SPECIFIC DATES", which correspond to when these destroyers were commissioned, which doesn't mean when they were completed. Some GEARING DDR units were completed as straight destroyers, went on shakedown and then went to one of the two selected conversion yards. Other units as the program progressed, went direct to the conversion yards and had some of the conversion done at the builder's yard, like deleting some equipment/armament. So your question will take some digging.

Camo would be either Ms 21 or Ms 22 with either the purple-blue or neutral-gray paints. It is debatable for each unit as to which unit was painted to which paint and when.

Good day and Merry Christmas/Happy New Year to everyone!

I would like to humbly ask for your help in confirming some Gearing-class ships specs.
Navsource images on these aren't numerous or comprehensive enough, so I would be most grateful for any info regarding weaponry, fitting out (AA, Torpedo tubes etc.) and camouflage present on the following ships:
USS Everett F. Larson DD-830 as of April 6, 1945;
USS Goodrich DD-831 as of April 21, 1945;
USS Fred T. Berry DD-858 as of May 18, 1945;
USS Dyess DD-880 as of May 26, 1945.
I am especially concerned about the camouflage, because 1) what I found on the Ship Camouflage website doesn't seem to be the case on the photos available to me, 2) Navy Blue in 1945 is known to have been substituted with Navy Gray, same for Deck Blue and Deck Gray, and I really can't tell on black and white photos, which is which.

Thank you all in advance and happy holidays once more!

[quote="Maarten Sch�nfeld"][quote="TZoli"]I've been asked to draw the Gearing class Destroyer USS Keppler in her FRAM II form, and I have difficulty finding drawings of the Hedgehog Anti-Submarine Projector drawings (preferably the Mark 15) of side and top views. Does anybody have such drawings?[/quote]
I would receommend to trawl the volumes of John Lambert on naval weapons, I believe these plans must be somewhere in there (but I don't have those here, so I cannot tell where exactly...)[/quote]

Nope, Naval Weapons of WW2 by John Campbell and British Naval Weapons of World War Two, Volume I: Destroyer Weapons by John Lambert both lacks drawings of this weapon.

[quote="TZoli"]I've been asked to draw the Gearing class Destroyer USS Keppler in her FRAM II form, and I have difficulty finding drawings of the Hedgehog Anti-Submarine Projector drawings (preferably the Mark 15) of side and top views. Does anybody have such drawings?[/quote]
I would receommend to trawl the volumes of John Lambert on naval weapons, I believe these plans must be somewhere in there (but I don't have those here, so I cannot tell where exactly...)

I've been asked to draw the Gearing class Destroyer USS Keppler in her FRAM II form, and I have difficulty finding drawings of the Hedgehog Anti-Submarine Projector drawings (preferably the Mark 15) of side and top views. Does anybody have such drawings?