The Ship Model Forum

You could build in the Only True Scale off course -:) And while not OOP I found my 3D printed '700 cage masts rather fragile as well and i am considering going 'back' to old method for a stalled 1/700 project. I have seen some very nice cage masts in 1/350 using the 'traditional' method, why don't you try doing one?

Timmy C wrote:3D-printed cagemasts have become available since this thread was made - Blue Ridge makes several versions: https://freetimehobbies.com/search/sear ... =cage+mast

Unfortunately, the 1/350 cage masts are OOP and superbly fragile.

3D-printed cagemasts have become available since this thread was made - Blue Ridge makes several versions: https://freetimehobbies.com/search/sear ... =cage+mast

At some point in time i want to do an early USS.Arizona and thinking about the cage mast, couldn't seem to find what i wanted, i mess a round in 3d modelling now an then i would have thought that would have been the way to go, unless the thickness of the struts [ can we call them that?] is too thin to produce, I know Shapeway's can only do a certain thickness otherwise the printer can't print it.

JIM BAUMANN wrote:-over to Wolfgang:
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>>This ISW cagemast is modified.
I used the original ISW mast and added one
more segment upside down. The pictures I have of " USS Nebraska" during
1918 show very thin and long cagemasts; they seem to be nearly double as
tall as her stacks. ...and the standard ISW PE-cagemasts were to short, so I
think it was the best idea to extend them like I did (...by the way: this was my only idea...!!

And now it looks like more than a hourglass shape than before.

What a simple, yet brilliant idea! My only comment would be the cage masts look a little too tall.

BTW - I'm moving this thread to the Tips forum, I think it's worth keeping around.

Hi guys

My web-chum Wolfgang Kring from Germany is building a number of US Pre-dreadnoughts --mainly in 1/350.

He has allowed me to post a couple of pictures of his work.

I include below the text pertaining to the images.
Note the presence of the platforms and the internal ladders....!!

-over to Wolfgang:
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>>This ISW cagemast is modified.
I used the original ISW mast and added one
more segment upside down. The pictures I have of " USS Nebraska" during
1918 show very thin and long cagemasts; they seem to be nearly double as
tall as her stacks. ...and the standard ISW PE-cagemasts were to short, so I
think it was the best idea to extend them like I did (...by the way: this was my only idea...!!

And now it looks like more than a hourglass shape than before.

john bange wrote:just makes me keep hacking away at my Maryland...wonder where he got the 5" guns...O ya! I got the book Scale Model Warships...thanks Jim

Dear Colleagues,
Thank you for your comments; I am glad that you liked the masts... The 5-in AA guns are from the "weapons and equipment" sprues that are now included into some 1:700 Revell ship kits... Kind regards - Alex

Seasick wrote:Andy G that's a good Java Applet for the cage mast.

Aye - but shh! It was stolen from a maths' site.

...That said, it gets the point across.

I really like the scans Jim put in - it's construction details like that which get my fingers wandering off to the bits-and-pieces box. Ummm...Not that my Dreadnought is going to be sprouting a cage mast any time soon!

Andy

Fantastic work, Alex, keep 'em rolling!

just makes me keep hacking away at my Maryland...wonder where he got the 5" guns...O ya! I got the book Scale Model Warships...thanks Jim

Alex Mandel has asked me to post these 'in-progress' pictures of his new model .

"Here goes some photos of my 1:720 USS Colorado, "converted" from the old good Revell's USS Arizona. It is pretty incomplete yet, with a lot of details still absent... but I thought maybe somebody will find it interesting or useful in aspect of this problem of imitating the US Navy caged masts.

Kind Regards - sincerely, Alex"

Andy G that's a good Java Applet for the cage mast.

Dear Colleagues in Modelism,
Thank you very much for sharing your most interesting comments on this "notorious problem" that the US caged masts certainly are for a modeler!

The graphic explanation of Andy G. "what this mast really is" is just on target, and very illustrative... and the scans from the P C Coker III's book "BUILDING WARSHIP MODELS", posted by Jim Baumann, are really excellent.
I'm afraid, it really represents the "only existing way" to imitate such a mast really "properly" (as a hyperboloid, not a cone-looking). And, actually, it is exactly how i built the caged mast for my 1:700 US Florida, and then 2 such masts for the 1:720 USS Colorado - that i am currently "converting" from the old good Revell's 1:720 Arizona.
The ship will be in her 30s appearance - with a "short" caged foremast (because of the lower - bigger - part of it was already "absorbed" by a forward superstructure, as we remember), and with a "full height" caged mainmast.
The ship is still quite far from being really completed yet... but both masts are already on their places. So, i will try in a day or two to photograph it, and will send these photos to the Forum... I will try to photograph it in such a way for to make the "structure" of the masts clearly visible... and hope maybe these pix will "illustrate the problem" in some useful way... Kind Regards to All! - very sincerely, Alex

I think the best compromise possible in photoetch would be a three-piece assembly. From studying the Arizona's as-completed cagemast, I see that the lower half contains twice as many rods as the upper half, and the upper half is essentially symmetrical mirrored across the 3/4 height line. Thus, I suggest three conical pieces with the upper two quarters identical and joined narrow end to narrow end, and then glued atop the lower half. Not a smooth curve, obviously, but a heck of a lot closer to the real shape than a straight cone all the way up. (Some rolling templates would be nice, too.) In 1:700 scale it should be effective enough, especially after platforms are added.

Not all cage masts are made the same, though. The Arisona's cage is heavier than the ones fitted to the South Carolinas and pre-dreads, but nowhere near as heavy as the ones on the Tennessee and Colorado classes (and intended for the Lexingtons and South Dakotas), with their big tops. Different PE sets would be in order for the different cases.

Also, regarding the Colorado in today's gallery update: Looks great, but not a good example for the wider cage mast discussion. The segment of cage remaining in the late war Colorado and Maryland is so short it shows almost no curvature in photos. (The sides almost looks purely vertical, in fact.)

- Sean F.

got it coming...thanks
john

THERE is a whole chapter of his models in this very worthwhile book

Warship Models by John Bowen--get your copy here for under $ 10.00...

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... &y=13&x=47

Isn't that P.C. Coker book great? Most of the time, my efforts come from models shown in that book...I would love to see a display of vessels by Lawrence Sowinski, featured in it.
john bange

I've been away for a few days so I'm just catching up here.
Chuck's suggestion is actually Tom's modelworks approach, or at least the combination of a long cone and a short cone included in his PE sets can have this result. I also think Sami Arim's short lived PE efforts in 1/1200 had the same approach. It may just have been Tom's intention however to include the neccesary masts for a California class battleship at Pearl Harbor.
I've been looking at some of the diagrams here in this thread and I think that the main problem with my original suggestion will be the widening of the cage mast shape towards the top. A two part approach with a middle circle (remember most cagemasts had a stiffening ring at the thinnest point circle anyway) and a slight curve in both glueing edges should give you a good approximation of a Rhomboid shape. It will not be mathematically perfect but when was the last time you planned a 100km road trip on a globe instead of on a map? The difference will hardly be visible while the straight lines of the cone shape use currently are visible as humans have a a tendency to spot and over emphasize straight lines (this is also a problem with porthole pattern mistakes on liner kits). And using a cast resin shape instead of a cage mast in 1/700.... let's say I built using different standards and I am far, far away from the expert level of people like Jim Baumann and Alex Mandel. If you're using PE catapults and railings you should also use PE cage masts.
[quote="chuck"]Perhaps PE makers can make a better shaped cage mast by dividing the mast lengthwise into sections, and for each section providing PE that would roll up into a truncated cone of an appropriate angle. These truncated cones with different angles can then stack together to simulate a hyperboloid cage?[/quote]

Nah, that would be awful.

Perhaps PE makers can make a better shaped cage mast by dividing the mast lengthwise into sections, and for each section providing PE that would roll up into a truncated cone of an appropriate angle. These truncated cones with different angles can then stack together to simulate a hyperboloid cage?