by Guest » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:21 pm
Laurence Batchelor wrote:Anonymous wrote:
It does appear that, using County type construction practices, the British would not have been able to match the Takao gun for gun, knot for knot, and mm of armor for mm of armor even if they matched Takao in displacement.
Conversely, British sailors did have to stand over scuppers on decks in order to shower, nor would they have been able to get around without stooping in the low deck height accepted by the Japanese. Most importantly, British cruisers, although slower in a sprint, could probably maintain higher speed for longer in heavier seas.
I would say by going with actual performace in battle that a County by 1941 being such a stable gun platform would probably also be hitting at longer ranges than a Mogami.
Off-setting in part her 2-barrel advantage in gun armament.
If we go back for an out for out data comparison:
After 1935 Kent's had 4.5" belt which I believe is superior to Mogami's of 3.9"? Or was this increased at her rebuild?
Mogami though has a better deck armour of something like 1.4" over the British 1.25" over machinery and steering spaces.
She also has better protected magazines with around 5" armour compared to 2.5"- 4" for the British.
Finally could Mogami really do 35knts under battle conditions?
I would think this unlikely, though I'm open to opinions!
Bring em on I say!
No, she couldn't make 35 knots at any time. After rebulging her top speed was something like 34 knots. The Japanese cruiser hull form were not very efficient as far as wave generation is concerned, and 30 knot bow wave is typically higher than the freeboard even in flat calm. Nevertheless it appears that Japanese routinely run their cruisers at very high speed even in severe weather. There are numerous photos pf various Japanese cruisers plowing throw very heavy seas at appearently very high speed judging from their massive wake and enormous bow spray.
Mogami's belt wasn't the thickest of IJN cruisers either. Takaos had thicker protection (4.5 inch belt), same armament, and achieved equal speed on a slightly larger hull using somewhat less horse power. When compared to the modified Counties, one needs to also account for the fact that Magomi's and Takao's belt are inclined. The Japanese ships disposed 2 more main caliber guns and substantially heavier dual purpose secondary guns. Japanese cruisers off course has torpedo armament capable of effectively engaging at gunnery range. Japanese engagement doctrine apparently dictate that torpedos are lunched before closing even if there is no good engagement opportunity to prevent torpedo warheads from being detonated by an shell hit. So if the negagement takes place in sea too heavy for torpedos to run true at long range, the Japanese would not have saved their torpedoes for closer in.
The flip side is Japanese for some reason didn't believe cruiser turrets deserved protection, and both had only splinter proof plating on their turrets.
[quote="Laurence Batchelor"][quote="Anonymous"]
It does appear that, using County type construction practices, the British would not have been able to match the Takao gun for gun, knot for knot, and mm of armor for mm of armor even if they matched Takao in displacement.
Conversely, British sailors did have to stand over scuppers on decks in order to shower, nor would they have been able to get around without stooping in the low deck height accepted by the Japanese. Most importantly, British cruisers, although slower in a sprint, could probably maintain higher speed for longer in heavier seas.[/quote]
I would say by going with actual performace in battle that a County by 1941 being such a stable gun platform would probably also be hitting at longer ranges than a Mogami.
Off-setting in part her 2-barrel advantage in gun armament.
If we go back for an out for out data comparison:
After 1935 Kent's had 4.5" belt which I believe is superior to Mogami's of 3.9"? Or was this increased at her rebuild?
Mogami though has a better deck armour of something like 1.4" over the British 1.25" over machinery and steering spaces.
She also has better protected magazines with around 5" armour compared to 2.5"- 4" for the British.
Finally could Mogami really do 35knts under battle conditions?
I would think this unlikely, though I'm open to opinions!
Bring em on I say! :lol_3:[/quote]
No, she couldn't make 35 knots at any time. After rebulging her top speed was something like 34 knots. The Japanese cruiser hull form were not very efficient as far as wave generation is concerned, and 30 knot bow wave is typically higher than the freeboard even in flat calm. Nevertheless it appears that Japanese routinely run their cruisers at very high speed even in severe weather. There are numerous photos pf various Japanese cruisers plowing throw very heavy seas at appearently very high speed judging from their massive wake and enormous bow spray.
Mogami's belt wasn't the thickest of IJN cruisers either. Takaos had thicker protection (4.5 inch belt), same armament, and achieved equal speed on a slightly larger hull using somewhat less horse power. When compared to the modified Counties, one needs to also account for the fact that Magomi's and Takao's belt are inclined. The Japanese ships disposed 2 more main caliber guns and substantially heavier dual purpose secondary guns. Japanese cruisers off course has torpedo armament capable of effectively engaging at gunnery range. Japanese engagement doctrine apparently dictate that torpedos are lunched before closing even if there is no good engagement opportunity to prevent torpedo warheads from being detonated by an shell hit. So if the negagement takes place in sea too heavy for torpedos to run true at long range, the Japanese would not have saved their torpedoes for closer in.
The flip side is Japanese for some reason didn't believe cruiser turrets deserved protection, and both had only splinter proof plating on their turrets.