The Ship Model Forum

Bill,
I also must say a big thank you for that post. I learned quite a bit since I am not one of the lucky ones to have had a chance to be a part of naval life. I was a ground pounder in the army but I have always eyed the big ships. I know now what to call things in that area....and don't be surprised if I ask other weird questions down the line.

Yevgeniy,

Glad I could help.

The grates and bonnet covers are only taken off when the crew is working the cable, ie either anchoring or recovering the anchor. The rest of the time, even when at anchor, the grates and covers are on. Becomes a safety issue as much as anything and to many a seaman, the area doesn't look ship shape when they are off.

WEM may not have include grates in their kit for the Grosser Kurfurst as it may not have had them. Unfortunately my knowledge of this ship is non existant, so I cannot say, but if it did then the PE piece would add that little bit more authenticity to the model, not say look damm nice as well!

cheers,

Bill

Bill,

Great thanks for such a profound and knowledgeable explanation.

My naval knowledge is that of a shiplover and unfortunatelly not a real seaman (which I believe most of modelwarshippers wanted to be and some are really are). So your explanation of terms was really helpful.

From your explanations I take a conclusion that normally the cover/grate shall be normally placed over the hawse pipe when ship is moving and taken away when cable/chain is used (for instance when the ship is at anchor).

So far I did not make anythings for the hawse pipe as after adding the decks to the hul I saw that the inside of the ship is not visible from the openings for anchor in the deck (hawse pipe) - which was my concern for raising this question.

Later (on rigging and elaboration stage of my shipbuilding process) I will probably make such covers/lids for the hawse pipes on my Grosser Kurfurst. It is a pity WEM's wonderful PE set for this ship does not include the grates like shown above on Arizona. I will probably make them out of some bits of thin plastic sheets.

Thank you very much again for giving comprehensive info on this issue.

Yevgeniy

Yevgeniy,

Not sure what your naval knowledge is like so will explain a few terms before I answer your question, which is probably to late noting when you first posted it.

The hole between the deck and the outside of the hull in which the anchor sits is known as the hawse pipe. The hole into which the anchor cable vanishes after going around the capstan is called the naval pipe.

In answer to your question most ships would have either a rear facing bonnet, aka Konig and / or a cover over the naval pipe as would appear Arizona had. The cover was usually bolted to the bonnet and had a cut out that fitted over the chain - it was unbolted and removed before the cable was worked. The cable essentially goes into an unmanned compartment towards the bottom of the hull, although not always, where it was stored. The cover is designed to minimise the amount of water entering that compartment and either flooding it or rusting the cable - rusted cable has a habit of binding together just when you really want it to come out!

The angle and length of the hawse pipe was set by the architect and varies from ship to ship, however it must be long enough that the shank of the anchor is fully enclosed within it when the anchor is home, ie pulled up hard against the hull. The grate helps break up the column of water pushed up the hawse pipe in a seaway as well as providing a means of stopping sailors falling or being washed down the pipe from the backwash of water on the deck. Again when the cable was being worked the grate was unbolted and removed.

Hopes this helps.

cheers,

Bill

Wildspear,

Truly the picture is worth thousand words.

Thank you. I will make this "semi-sleeves" and may be covers.

Yevgeniy

here is a picture of what those openings looked like on the USS Arizona.



It looks like you can make a cover for it and it may be easier than the tube.

Yes, it was my idea also to make a sleeve

But again on one model of Konig
(the pictures here: http://www.linienschiffe.de/fremde%20se ... boeck.html )
I saw these holes been covered by a "lid" of the same shape as the holes from under the deck with smaller hole in the lid just of the size of the chain.

The sleeve is technically more compilcated to make (in my opinion) than the lid which I can just carve out of any plastic sheet. But I never heard of such lids for anchor chain deck holes on real ships (as not a real seaman) so I decided to ask someone.

I understand that everybody has to deal with these holes with all pre-dreads, WWI and WWII era ships of 1/350 scale or larger (probably there is no question for 1/700 as these holes are almost invisible). Probably some leave them as they are - open with inside hull visible, others make sleeves (though never read about it in build-up articles), some make lids. may be some other ways also?

How do you guys handle these anchor chain deck holes with your models?

Yeveniy

I would go ahead and make a sleeve of some sort just to cut down the chance of an open space being viewed.

ARH,

Yea, I looked part II page 9 of your opus and finally got to the last pics where these holes for anchor chains are located. I can not keep myself from saying that your Iron Duke looks to me as an Egyptian pyramid - I can not imagine myself building one.

The question remains:

1) Your colossus has anchors quite close to the deck and many other ships have them closer to water (as Grosser Kurfurst) which will make the path from the deck to the hole in the bow where the anchor is quite longer and will probably require some sleeve/tube painted black to avoid direct look inside the hull? What do you think? Is it so with real ships - do the have such sleeve between two holes in the deck and the hull?

2) You do not show these holes directly from above (on all pics they are shown in an angle to the deck) so that I can not get an idea whether I can look through two holes. But probably I would not be able to see anything as again two holes are located quite close to each other at sharp angle.

Probably I should have asked directly. Did you make that sleeve between holes? Are they done normally for 1/350 scale or there is another solution?

Yevgeniy

Hi, If you check out the Iron Duke thead, I think its in part 2 page 9 , it shows how to fit them, the thing is they are round but because of the angle they go through the deck and are cut level with the deck ,it makes them look egg shaped.

Hi, all

My question is what you do with egg-like holes for anchor chain in the deck where the chains go from the deck into the hull. (Sorry for lack of proper terminology). My ship is Grosser Kurfurst 1/350 for you just to understand the issue so that these "holes" are just a little less than 1 cm in length. Again my question relates to holes in the deck (not in the hull)

On the picks I saw them just left open (if I saw properly). But also only onces I saw them covered on the inside by plastic sheet with small hole for the chain.

My idea is that if they are just left open then one would be able to see through the hull due to light coming into the holes on the board side where the anchor hangs. But may be I am falling into Advanced Modellers Syndrome (although far from advanced modeller) and it is normal to leave them open.

Will be thankful for suggestions.

Yevgeniy
P.S. I can answer with a little delay (1-2 hours) today.