The Ship Model Forum

by **Lesforan** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:46 pm

Overestimating Soviet weapon technology was a staple for the military-industrial complex all during the Cold War.

The Sverdlovs were a boon to Western naval budgets.

After all, as has been pointed out, they were only light cruisers. Western naval establishments greeted them as a fleet of super-dreadnoughts.

All the better to overbuild expensive countermeasures.

by **Dave Wooley** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:54 pm

Anonymous wrote:For some reason, although this class of soviet cruisers were essentially comparable to the Cleveland class CL, and the concept of independent cruiser/commerce raiders must have been largely superceded by development during second half of WWII, western governments insisted on crediting them with implausible prowess and as a deadly threat to translantic shipping routes.

Part of the lunatic assessment of these ship's capability was the assertion that these ship has a fantastic top speed in the high 30s to the low 40s range. When it was pointed out that such speed on such a hull violated the law of physics as was then known, the reaction by western defense establishment was not to revise the speed estimate downwards, but to try and find out how the soviets transcended the laws of physics.

It was said part of Crabb's mission was to inspect the hull of the Soviet ship to see what communists knew about hydrodynamic magic that we didn't .

This was the semi official line but perhaps after the expiry of the 70year rule more will be revealed. Essentially the Sverlovs were based on the preceeding pre war design of the Chapaevs and It could be said that the sonar arrangement was the main focus of interest.
Dave Wooley

by **Roger T** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:26 pm

Anonymous wrote:Part of the lunatic assessment of these ship's capability was the assertion that these ship has a fantastic top speed in the high 30s to the low 40s range. When it was pointed out that such speed on such a hull violated the law of physics as was then known, the reaction by western defense establishment was not to revise the speed estimate downwards, but to try and find out how the soviets transcended the laws of physics.

This was a constant theme in Western assessments of Soviet capabilities during the Cold War.

by **Guest** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:18 pm

For some reason, although this class of soviet cruisers were essentially comparable to the Cleveland class CL, and the concept of independent cruiser/commerce raiders must have been largely superceded by development during second half of WWII, western governments insisted on crediting them with implausible prowess and as a deadly threat to translantic shipping routes.

Part of the lunatic assessment of these ship's capability was the assertion that these ship has a fantastic top speed in the high 30s to the low 40s range. When it was pointed out that such speed on such a hull violated the law of physics as was then known, the reaction by western defense establishment was not to revise the speed estimate downwards, but to try and find out how the soviets transcended the laws of physics.

It was said part of Crabb's mission was to inspect the hull of the Soviet ship to see what communists knew about hydrodynamic magic that we didn't .

by **MichelB** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:45 pm

Maybe he was looking for a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port, whose shaft led directly to the reactor system.

by **Timmy C** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:21 pm

Werner wrote: unless there was more than meets the eye.

Because the Soviets had giant transforming robots that can transform into a cruiser.

by **Werner** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:19 pm

Would the photographic visibility be more than a meter or so? I have experience diving Lake Michigan. I doubt a photographic essay was possible. He may have been exploring and taking rough measurements.

I can't imagine why a cruiser hull would excite such interest unless there was more than meets the eye.

by ar » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:56 pm

It was said by some that the man was too old and out of condition, he was very experienced though. There is NO doubt that he was checking out the ship, which would havw included photos of underwater features and the taking of measurements.
The Navy has refused to release the file on the matter.

by **Timmy C** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:31 pm

That's what I was looking for; thanks.

by **Werner** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:29 pm

The nature of the wrists means they usually decay rapidly, as do the attachments of the cervical vertebra. In addition, the head is a large clumsy weight to be held in place by rapidly deteriorating tissues. It doesn't help that the mouth and throat are reservoirs for eager bacteria ready to attack the body.

I'm sure you remember that Lacy Peterson was found in a similar state after a few months.

by **Timmy C** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:23 pm

Yes, but I mean which particular effect made the guy head/handless without actual behead/handing?

by **Werner** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:22 pm

Taphonomy is the study of how dead things decay and how they may be preserved in the fossil record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taphonomy

by **Timmy C** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:54 pm

What's 'taphonomic' effect? (asides from being headless/handless)

by **Werner** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:32 pm

No, but they did say "take it or leave it", which seems an inducement to read more into the circumstance than has been stated.

by **Roger T** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:26 pm

Werner wrote:Being headless and handless after months in salt water is not an indication of amputation...

No-one said the relevant parts were amputated, merely that the body was found 'headless and handless'.

by **Werner** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:49 am

Being headless and handless after months in salt water is not an indication of amputation, it's a normal taphonomic effect.

by **Roger T** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:30 am

In my 'Reader's Digest Book of Strange Stories, Amazing Facts' (cor!), there's an article on Crabb. Apparently, over a year after he vanished, the body of a man in a rubber suit was found in Chichester Harbour on 9 June 1957 - minus head and hands. The body had a scar on one leg like one Crabb had, the wetsuit was of the Italian make Crabb favoured, and the corpse had hammer-toes, a feature Crabb bore, though apparently those of the corpse were less severe. The Chichester coroner pronounced that it was Crabb's body. But who can say...?

by ar » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:52 am

Dave Wooley wrote:This OO7 type mystery surrounding the Sverdlov class cruiser has been the stuff of speculation for over 50 years . All is now revealed or is it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... 0&ito=1490
Dave Wooley

I was told by a spook many years ago, that the body was found, 'headless". Take it or leave it.

by **Werner** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:55 am

No doubt the fact that every photo of the 47 year old diver shows him dragging on a cigarette had nothing to do with his disappearance.

by **Guest** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:53 pm

Russians might well have gotten more by capturing Crabb and staging a political incident over it.

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