The Ship Model Forum

by **kennylibben** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:46 pm

So Roosevelt almost died, he couldn't help that. the fact is he didn't screw up at all, he just got god awful bad luck.

Oh yeah, I'm going to throw in Meriwether Lewis as another of my favorite explorers, although I admit it wasn't specifically into the unknown...

by **Guest** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:49 pm

Yamato1701 wrote:Boats and polar ice don't mix, I thought we learned this lesson in April of 1912

Let's just say boats and ice don't mix, so to hell with polar exploration.

by **Yamato1701** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:48 pm

Boats and polar ice don't mix, I thought we learned this lesson in April of 1912

by **Guest** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:45 pm

You should read the history of exploration of Africa in order to put Roosevelt's trip on Rio da Duvida into comparative framework. Also I think it is not too harsh to say where as Shackleton was the captain of men during the greatest adversity, Roosevelt was a dead weight during the greatest adversity on that particular trip.

by **kennylibben** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:49 am

While his expedition may not have been as grandiose as Shackletons, I would have to say my favorite explorer was Theodore Roosevelt, and before you jump on me about his African Safaris not being exploration - i'm talking about The River of Doubt.

by **bengtsson** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:15 am

Andy G wrote:
bengtsson wrote:...They navigated their boat from the island through the straights of Magellan and all the way to the mouth of the La Plata on Jan. 28 1742. A voyage of 2,500 miles. It took Captain Bligh to out do Lieutenant Bulkeley, but it does tell what the officers of the Royal Navy were made of in those days.
Hi Bob - two and a half thousand miles is pretty good in an open boat - but the advantage they had of "keeping the shore on the left" pales somewhat when compared to Bligh's & Shackleton's open ocean crossings.

Andy

Indeed. Navigation was not the problem for them. They also were lucky in that it was summer down there at the time. They had reached starvation levels before setting sail. I'de like to read an account of their voyage and find out if they put ashore for food gathering. The territory was all held by a hostile Spain and avoiding them was also a factor. In any case, Hats of to them!

I've read of Bligh's voyage and it really is THE story of the Bounty adventure.

Bob B.

by **MichelB** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:22 am

The Dutch explorer Willem Barentsz navigated his shipwrecked crew in two small boats out of the arctic where they had spent the winter in a small hut on Nova Zembla, besieged by starvation, scurvy and polar bears, - he died on the way back.

by **Andy G** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:03 am

bengtsson wrote:...They navigated their boat from the island through the straights of Magellan and all the way to the mouth of the La Plata on Jan. 28 1742. A voyage of 2,500 miles. It took Captain Bligh to out do Lieutenant Bulkeley, but it does tell what the officers of the Royal Navy were made of in those days.

Hi Bob - two and a half thousand miles is pretty good in an open boat - but the advantage they had of "keeping the shore on the left" pales somewhat when compared to Bligh's & Shackleton's open ocean crossings.

Andy

by **Guest** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:39 pm

Ahhhh, my faith in humanity is restored. Even Werner has at least one redeeming quality.

by **Werner** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:36 pm

Chuck wrote:
Werner wrote:F. For opinion's sake I frequently find myself aligned with certain liberals regarding my opinion of music. .

Werner listens to Joan Biaz? His taste is even worse than I had feared!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

by **bengtsson** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:11 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Mark Petersen wrote:In terms of open ocean small boat voyages Shackleton's is right up there with Bligh's to Timor

Despite the fact that it has become fashionable in 20th century to use the latest technology to set ego boosting ocean crossing records, some records that bespeak of true accomplishments have never been broken.

Amongst them is Bligh's trip across Polynesia in an open cutter, severely overloaded, and with minimal provision. No one in the 230 years since has succeeded in navigating a longer ocean trip in a open boat.

Hollywood has squandered miles of celluloid on Fletcher Christian and the Mutiny. But Bligh's subsequent trip from the Bounty to Timor is an epic of human leadership, will, and endurance of all together different proportion.

An accurate telling of Bligh's trip would sink all of Hollywood's romantic notion of oppressed crew rising against official tyranny.

I couldn't agree more about the difference between real feats of courage and skill versus the phoney 20th century ego trips.

Let's not forget the earlier voyage Lieutenant Bulkeley of the HMS Wager part of Anson's 1741 voyage to raid on the pacific coast of South America. Wager was driven ashore and wrecked on a barren island off the coast of Chile. After using what small stores they could salvage, the men faced starvation. The ship's Lieutenant Bulkeley chose to set out with thirty men in the ships 50 foot longboat, which they named the Speedwell. They navigated their boat from the island through the straights of Magellan and all the way to the mouth of the La Plata on Jan. 28 1742. A voyage of 2,500 miles. It took Captain Bligh to out do Lieutenant Bulkeley, but it does tell what the officers of the Royal Navy were made of in those days.

Bob B.

by **Guest** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:41 pm

Werner wrote:F. For opinion's sake I frequently find myself aligned with certain liberals regarding my opinion of music. .

Werner listens to Joan Biaz? His taste is even worse than I had feared!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

by **JWintjes** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:33 pm

Werner wrote:Fortunately for all concerned, ranking the prowess of explorers is in the realm of opinion. For opinion's sake I frequently find myself aligned with certain liberals regarding my opinion of music. That does not bother me. I am sure Jorit can protect his sense of self-esteem by thinking along these lines about Chuck and Shackleton.

But only barely, Werner. Only barely...

Jorit

by **Werner** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:25 pm

Fortunately for all concerned, ranking the prowess of explorers is in the realm of opinion. For opinion's sake I frequently find myself aligned with certain liberals regarding my opinion of music. That does not bother me. I am sure Jorit can protect his sense of self-esteem by thinking along these lines about Chuck and Shackleton.

by **Guest** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:14 pm

JWintjes wrote:
Again, to my shocking astonishment, I find myself in agreement with Chuck.
Jorit

I am gratified to see that despite your best efforts to get rid of them, a few redeeming qualities have remained with you.

by **Guest** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:08 pm

Timmy C wrote:[quote="Anonymous
What type do I strike you as?

Anon is legion.[/quote]

I am afraid I have no idea what you are talking about.

by **Guest** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:07 pm

JWintjes wrote:
kennylibben wrote: The kind that just takes the free phone that comes with the plan...

...nothing wrong with that tho, thats what i do!
Funny you think so - I would have thought of Chuck to be the guy camping outside the shop for a week...

Jorit

I waited until the thing was out for 2 weeks so I didn't have to camp out at the store for a week.

by **Guest** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:06 pm

Mark Petersen wrote:In terms of open ocean small boat voyages Shackleton's is right up there with Bligh's to Timor

Despite the fact that it has become fashionable in 20th century to use the latest technology to set ego boosting ocean crossing records, some records that bespeak of true accomplishments have never been broken.

Amongst them is Bligh's trip across Polynesia in an open cutter, severely overloaded, and with minimal provision. No one in the 230 years since has succeeded in navigating a longer ocean trip in a open boat.

Hollywood has squandered miles of celluloid on Fletcher Christian and the Mutiny. But Bligh's subsequent trip from the Bounty to Timor is an epic of human leadership, will, and endurance of all together different proportion.

An accurate telling of Bligh's trip would sink all of Hollywood's romantic notion of oppressed crew rising against official tyranny.

by **Mark Petersen** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:50 am

In terms of open ocean small boat voyages Shackleton's is right up there with Bligh's to Timor

by **JWintjes** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:06 am

Anonymous wrote:
A captain of men at the onset, and a captain of men in the greatest adversity, that is what distinguish a great explorer from the pilot, or passenger, or a swift handed carpenter who stemmed a leak, aboard a ship of exploration. Shackleton had it, Erikson had it, Magellan had it, it may be politically incorrect to say it, and their other acts are reprehensible, but Cortez and Pizzaro had this. Columbus, not in so high a degree.

When Magellan fell, even his enemies, men he had demoted and degraded, lamented that their light and their mirror is gone. Unlikely will you find this magnitude of greatness from Yuri Grigarin, Chuck Yeager, or Neil Armstrong.

Again, to my shocking astonishment, I find myself in agreement with Chuck.

Shackleton is the triumph of willpower and leadership in the face of odds that on the face of it are impossible; Magellan would seem to me to be an excellent comparison.

Jorit

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