The Ship Model Forum

by **Gone Asiatic** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:51 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy8mxh0P63M

A militrary march to stir the blood eh?

by **graham** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:05 pm

am currently reading Max Hastings NEMESIS the battle for Japan 1944-45, apart from some very minor errors ( should have it proof read by some one with a WW2 naval background)
It brings to together very well the back ground of what Japan was doing during the last 2 years of the war but some of the allies leadership are not covered in glory/brains either.
IMHO Not a lot of new stuff just all the relevant bits put to together in one very readable package

Just reinforces my idea of culling about 50% of the political /military leadership group every so often BUT which 50%

Graham Murdoch

by **Chuck~** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:10 pm

Gone Asiatic wrote:
Curious how European battlefield observers scoffed at the results of this conflict and sent their armies over-the-top into the teeth of machine gunners 10 years later with similar results.

The Russo-Japanese war was viewed as primarily a siege war. At the time the European armies still believed the next European war would have been a war of movement.

by **Gone Asiatic** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:42 am

Roger T wrote:
ChrisC wrote:That Russo-Japanese War film looks interesting. Any idea if it is out on DVD?
I'd like to know too! Looks good, and they even show the 28-cm howitzers shelling the Russians.

Another film that deals with the Russo-Japanese War, and includes both land and sea battles, is Nihonkai Daikaisen (1969), or Battle in the Sea of Japan. I got hold of it on DVD last year. More details, including a link to where to buy it, and screengrabs I made from the DVD, can be seen here:

http://bobhenneman.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=353

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyvnCtR4 ... re=related

5 parts are on youtube of the movie. Merely cut and paste 1 for 2 for 3 and such to see them all.

Curious how European battlefield observers scoffed at the results of this conflict and sent their armies over-the-top into the teeth of machine gunners 10 years later with similar results.

by **Gone Asiatic** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:26 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LUZxmKrieY

The CO of JDS ARIAKE explains to the actress curry is eaten on Fridays as a means of keeping up on the passage of time; curry = Friday - much like in the USN we used to have "Sliders" on Wednesdays. A cycle of watchstanding and sleep render what day of the week it is irrelevent otherwise.

I embarked JDS SHIRANE for three days in the mid-80`s from Maizuru to Muroran and had Kaigun Curry - musta` been a Friday.

by **Werner** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:38 pm

Wartime propaganda takes on an idiotic, simplified air after war's end.

If you are over 40, watch Fail Safe again at this remove.

by **Gone Asiatic** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:30 pm

Stimulating "conversation"

Any comments on the cartoon? All ten parts are on youtube. I`ve watched some US wartime Popeye, Warner Bros, and Disney cartoons.

by **Werner** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:08 pm

Chuck wrote:I prefer not to discuss Tone with you as I am no where near convinced by all that you have said and you haven't said anything new about it since about 5 minutes into the first round.

That is your privilege as a well regarded member of this board. I believe you have demonstrated an understanding of my overall point which does not materially diverge from mine.

by **Guest** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:05 pm

I prefer not to discuss Tone with you as I am no where near convinced by all that you have said and you haven't said anything new about it since about 5 minutes into the first round.

by **Werner** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:51 pm

Chuck wrote:
Gone Asiatic wrote:.... As far as past atrocities go, you cannot hold the present generation responsible for the actions of those in the past -

You can not be held responsible for something that was done in the past to a different standard, unless you happen to honor that thing in the current context, in which it would not be unfair to judge you by that thing according to current standards.

I hold accountable those of the present who hold the evil past in reverence and awe.

If you model Tone and do not acknowledge the atrocities committed on her quarterdeck you are as tainted as those who currently wear the twisted cross.

What is the difference in your mind between Joachim Piper ordering the machine gunning American prisoners of war in the Battle of the Bulge and the officers of Tone beheading prisoner British merchantmen? I don't see any.

As regards LeMey, the Allied leaders, including Roosevelt and Churchill tortured logic to allow themselves leeway around conscience and treaty.

LeMey is not particularly revered in America, except perhaps as the prototype for Generals Turgedson and Ripper in Dr. Strangelove. Certainly, Yamamoto Isoroku Imadu, Tōgō Heihachirō, Kurita Takeo and many others are held in a higher regard currently by Imperial Japanophiles.

by **Guest** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:17 pm

Gone Asiatic wrote:.... As far as past atrocities go, you cannot hold the present generation responsible for the actions of those in the past -

You can not be held responsible for something that was done in the past to a different standard, unless you happen to honor that thing in the current context, in which it would not be unfair to judge you by that thing according to current standards.

by **Guest** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:10 pm

Hmmm, but Curtis Lemay only killed civilians who were still actively contributing to enemy war effort, he did not go out of his way to kill large number of civilians who had already fallen under his adminstrative control. There may be many shades of gray, but there is still a b;ack that is so black that it form no continum with any shades of gray.

by **Gone Asiatic** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:49 pm

I majored in Asian Studies (B.A. UMUC); I have a particular interest in Japan`s encounter with the west (starting from 1543 at Tanegashima), as well as the European exploration (and exploitation) of the Orient for its own commercial gain. As far as past atrocities go, you cannot hold the present generation responsible for the actions of those in the past - that`s what the warcrime trials were for. I am not a believer in national or racial guilt.

Curtis LeMay.......?

Here`s a wartime Japanese version of similar Disney efforts of the same period:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyjPzoEOvdM

by **Werner** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:23 pm

This is totally perverse: U-Boot Lied with Japanese subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-dhDTIlGZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjUa-ceKlJA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMpf00sdK6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvVWLa8aS3w

Enough bad taste?

by **Werner** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:05 pm

I'm sorry, I know I am always the wet rag, but if someone posted Sailing Against England (Wir fahren gegen Engelland), or U-Boat Song (U-Boot Lied), I think the thread would have been shut down rather quickly.

This is the dichotomy which has existed since WW.II. Germany has successfully shed it's military past and joined the modern era. Japan continues to revere it's martial, imperialistic past. Annual cruises to the wreck of the Yamato and the Yasukuni Shrine are other evidence of not coming to grips with an evil past. If an American or German politician merely visits a cemetery where otherwise honorable Waffen SS are buried, their careers are over; in Japan the analogue is necessary to insure reelection.

In your pro-Imperial Japanese reverie, please consider the hundreds of millions who do not share your joy of the glory of Imperial Japan and it's martial achievements.

After talking to the "achievements" of Japanese Imperialism, poor Iris Chang became so depressed, she killed herself.

If you guys insist, I will post Horst Wessel or something else comparable to your songs above.

by **Gone Asiatic** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:49 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TM0TNPq750
Umi YukaBa 海ゆかば
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfYqssnr ... re=related

by **Roger T** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:24 pm

ChrisC wrote:That Russo-Japanese War film looks interesting. Any idea if it is out on DVD?

I'd like to know too! Looks good, and they even show the 28-cm howitzers shelling the Russians.

Another film that deals with the Russo-Japanese War, and includes both land and sea battles, is Nihonkai Daikaisen (1969), or Battle in the Sea of Japan. I got hold of it on DVD last year. More details, including a link to where to buy it, and screengrabs I made from the DVD, can be seen here:

http://bobhenneman.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=353

by **HMAS** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:30 pm

Japanese Military Marches Togetari Kamikaze Kamikaze-go Mission.mp3

Japanese Military Marches If You Go to Sea Umi Yukaba.mp3

I am awaiting a friend to find my cd with these & a couple of others on it, he seems to have misplaced it

Even by 1940 western standards the music is orrible!
It is not a commercial cd.
Tony

by **ChrisC** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:43 pm

That Russo-Japanese War film looks interesting. Any idea if it is out on DVD?

by **Gone Asiatic** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:55 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS12isLjS5w&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuQ-GSf6 ... re=related
Movie clip from the assualt on 203 Metre Hill (Russo-Japanese War).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQY7QjYd ... re=related

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