The Ship Model Forum

Yeah , was kinda funny project , I had to quit it for some time , as I felt I didn't have the skills to finish it .

It still collects dust in the cellar , I have some other projects I have to end first , and I'll get to her back then .

http://titanic-model.com/articles/laurent/laurent.shtml

everything is to be seen here :
http://titanic-model.com/articles/laurent/

Cheers ,

laurent

Laurent,

At first I did not understand what is depicted on picture UNDER the crates, but when I got it :big_eyes: It is very impressive!

Thank you for demonstrating the issue with planking and plating. Your picture is 1000 words.

Now I have all information I need to start scratchbuilding. I will have to allocate time and buy a fret-saw and start (parallel to my ICM Grosser Kurfurst which I MUST finish this spring).

Yevgeniy

Hi Yevgeniy ,

Yes , it is possible to do planking with thick cardboard , but I would avoid it , I'd use fruit crates if you can find some , they can be taken for free on markets :
[img]http://titanic-model.com/articles/laurent/images_part3/Image1.jpg[/img]

a wooden hull , if the planks were glued together ( glue appied between the planks and not only on the frames ) & if you didn't use balsa for the planking ( use 3mm thick plywood instead --> see fruit crates here above ) , doesn't need any fibreglassing , G4 is just enough ( in & outside the hull ).

On "G4" , once it is hardened , you may glue whatever on it , just be sure it is made a little rough with sandpaper , I apply my paper planking on G4 with PVA white glue ( D3 quality ) , paper then coated with G4 .

Regards ,

Laurent

Laurent,

Thank you very much for such comprehensive answer.

I will look for this material in construction shop at my place (Kyiv, Ukraine). I am sure I will find some at construction shop. If I find an alternative brand I will write you.

To start scratchbuilding I plan to make some very simple ship out of wood for ribs and cardboard after I buy electric fret-saw as sawing manually all the ribs out of wood will take more time than I have now. As I can not get hold of balsa in my place I think about cardboard for plating.

Your technique with G4 is exactly what I need to make it watertight for RC.

Thank you very much one again for your attention to my question.

Yevgeniy
P.S. Sorry can can keep from asking, do you apply any sort of lamination on the top of G4 (litho plate, epoxy, etc.). If yes, which one? May be the hull looks perfect without any lamination?
P.P.S. I will look at Zinnia movie today in the evening when I will have access to direct Internet at home. Now I use dial-up in my office (strange as it sounds).

Yevgeniy ,

There are no stupid question , just stupid answers do exist :big_grin:

The polyurethane resin I use is called "G4" and is produced by "Vosschemie".

This is the kind of resin used in the boating industry to coat the wooden hull before the fibreglass & polyester ( or epoxy ) resin laminations may be applied.

it comes straight out of the bottle , no need to stir with other products .
[img]http://titanic-model.com/articles/laurent/update_jan05/images/G4%20%2C%201.jpg[/img]

here the properties to be read on the bottle :
[img]http://titanic-model.com/articles/laurent/update_jan05/images/G4%20%2C%20notice%20anglais%202.jpg[/img]

Now , this products yellows when exposed tu UV light , so I don't recommend its use on painted or printed paper .

There is another product existing in the Vosschemie range , it is called "G8" , it has the same properties as G4 but doesn't yellow at all , it is well twice expensive as G4 .

I presume those products are available at yours , with the Vosschemie brand , or maybe under another brand . The best option would be to go to a boating wharf near your home , or to a plastics specialist in the vicinity , to get that product or another one with the same qualities/properties .

it is sold in a one litre bottle , and costs about 17 � here near my home

I test my hulls in the bathtub , coated with G4 and left unpainted , I let them for a few hours , to see if they are properly coated , and till now , I never encountered big problems . The main problem I sometimes encounter is that some plating strakes were not properly glued , and water found its way between the layers , but the coated paper never shrinked nor has been damaged .

Ingura filmed my "Zinnia" this year , proof that card can be waterproofed without any problem :
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=4soKnbYRTtY

Anyway , here under a very good site with FAQs about cardboard building :
http://www.cardfaq.org/faq/

I know that some german modellers do sail paper models coming out from such a "book" , but I don't know which product they use for their hulls .

I know also that Jim Baumann is building card models too , I hope he reads this message to chime in .

Cheers ,

Laurent

And a question which I have forgot :doh_1:

If I cover "normal" (prepainted) paper model with polyurethane resin will I have to make new painting on it (because resin will change the appearance)?

Sorry for probably very stupid question - just want to make this clear for me to avoid destroying paper mods I am in the process of building.

Yevgeniy

Laurent wrote:
"...What I do is building a hull out of wood , plank on frames , I represent the plating with paper/cardboard and put two coats of polyurethane resin on it . This resin is a mono-component one , no need to mix something to it , it has the viscosity of water when new , the paper litterally drinks it , the paper commes then very tough on the surface ..."

Laurent, I have a quesiton about this if I may. Do you have R/C models build in the way you describe (paper for plating + polyurethane resin). If yes, how does the paper/cardboard covered with polyerethane behave in water and later when stored (soaking, shrinkage, etc.) and with years?

I am wondering about using your method for paper models I am doing for my son to make one of them R/C (just an idea). If it is possible, what brand of polyurethane resin do you buy? I have never seen this material (never looked for it) but I want to look out in some Baumarket so I will be happy to receive a hint.

Thank you for your attention to this question.

Yevgeniy

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/raider-hall/100_0833.jpg 1/350 FDR made from cardboard. http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/raider-hall/100_1415.jpg 1/350 Ranger made from cardboard.

[quote="HMAS"][quote="zak138"]I had not thought about ribs... I have a lot of planing to do... I do plan on using a epoxy of sorts to seal :smallsmile:[/quote]
Zak
here are a couple of images from a card modelling forum. A German type VII sub in 1/72 scale
[attachment=1]Hull-04 kookliks sub.jpg[/attachment][attachment=0]Keel-01 kookliks sub.jpg[/attachment]
they show the ribs thin card stock & thin card as 120gm weight.
Depending on the size of the model if huge I would use the TV box as the formers/ ribs inside the model, & thin card, cereal box type or thinner outside as you can curve it better for the hull.
Generally we use wood working glue (white glue) to join the card together but it's not waterproof. + trying to waterproof the card or the model when buildt is almost impossible I didn't say impossible but Bl*&6y difficult.

the model is available for sale at Thai paperwork PM me for the site address
Jim Bauman will pop in & suggest a lot of things I didn't as well[/quote]

Thank you for the info. I am looking to do something like this:

[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=7LFZm0XtAMU[/url]
I have emailed the guy about it to ask him some questions. What he told me was that he uses cardboard and fiberglass. He said that he starts by drawing the outline on the cardboard, cuts it out and glues the hull together. I am going to put more thought into just how I will go about this plan...

[quote="Laurent"]Hi Zak ,

I mainly use cardboard & paper to build my models , but I never intended to build a full hull out of cardboard .

What I do is building a hull out of wood , plank on frames , I represent the plating with paper/cardboard and put two coats of polyurethane resin on it . This resin is a mono-component one , no need to mix something to it , it has the viscosity of water when new , the paper litterally drinks it , the paper commes then very tough on the surface .

Can you tell us what size your DD would be , what scale , we need to know it to help you further on ...

Regards ,

Laurent
[/quote]

Wow, your work is really neat! I like how you put in the ribs for your model, but you were able to take them out when the glue dried. The amount of deail is really awesome! I really like the matchstick sized lifeboat.

I have got a long way to go to come near the level of work that is show cased here.

Like in the above video, I want to do a Burke class DDG. I am thinking I would like to keep it around 3 feet long.

Hi Zak ,

I mainly use cardboard & paper to build my models , but I never intended to build a full hull out of cardboard .

What I do is building a hull out of wood , plank on frames , I represent the plating with paper/cardboard and put two coats of polyurethane resin on it . This resin is a mono-component one , no need to mix something to it , it has the viscosity of water when new , the paper litterally drinks it , the paper commes then very tough on the surface .

Can you tell us what size your DD would be , what scale , we need to know it to help you further on ...

Regards ,

Laurent

have a look at my latest build :
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12149

[quote="zak138"]I had not thought about ribs... I have a lot of planing to do... I do plan on using a epoxy of sorts to seal :smallsmile:[/quote]
Zak
here are a couple of images from a card modelling forum. A German type VII sub in 1/72 scale
[attachment=1]Hull-04 kookliks sub.jpg[/attachment][attachment=0]Keel-01 kookliks sub.jpg[/attachment]
they show the ribs thin card stock & thin card as 120gm weight.
Depending on the size of the model if huge I would use the TV box as the formers/ ribs inside the model, & thin card, cereal box type or thinner outside as you can curve it better for the hull.
Generally we use wood working glue (white glue) to join the card together but it's not waterproof. + trying to waterproof the card or the model when buildt is almost impossible I didn't say impossible but Bl*&6y difficult.

the model is available for sale at Thai paperwork PM me for the site address
Jim Bauman will pop in & suggest a lot of things I didn't as well

Stop ribbing him :smallsmile:

you mean I can have them for breakfast too?! :big_grin:

I had not thought about ribs... I have a lot of planing to do... I do plan on using a epoxy of sorts to seal when I am done... Ribs, there not just for dinner anymore. :smallsmile:

Just to do the ribs and whatnot right? You are going to glass it over or seal it somehow, correct? I don't think cardboard would get along with water very well.... :big_grin:

While I've never used cardboard I would say you can probably use anything, but I would assume the sturdier the better. Obviously something thin like a cereal box would not do that well as it would bend and warp easier. A tv box should do decent I'd assume?



Hopefully someone with experience can help you out!

Hi. I am new to the forums, but have been admiring the galleries for a LONG time. I had a question about scratch building out of cardboard. Does the type of cardboard matter that I use? I have a huge box from my new TV that I have laying around... I would like to build a US Navy type destroyer. I intend for it to be a RC model for my local gravel pit. Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

Zak