The Ship Model Forum

Obviously I was throwing out a not popular perspective to look at something from a different angle in life.

This is the last comment I am going to make in this thread then I will keep my opinions to myself.

My study of proof to my previous comments are two fold.

1: My son would not watch documentaries, or any movie that resembled a documentary. After showing him two movies ("Pearl Harbor" and "Memphis Belle"), this opened the door to him to broaden his knowledge base as it got him interested. He now owns the documentary "Memphis Belle: The Story of a Flying Fortress" and loves to watch "Tora Tora Tora" plus movies like "Run Silent, Run Deep". He has accurately corrected a tour guide in the Smithsonian Air and Space museum. Now he is also into models and is trying to get me to take him to the model club I attend. Not bad for a nine year old.

2: The same two movies have helped my wife to understand my fascination with the subject of WWII. She agrees with every point both myself and the rest of you have made regarding the movie "Pearl Harbor". But the movie allowed her to see the events in a way that was not shown in any other movie to date (which she pointed out to me). From an emotional stand point. Both her and I are born and raised military brats. I could not serve due to medical conditions. She never wanted to, nor did she understand why people serve for the country. It has taken me several years to really start to get her to understand. It was one of the proudest moments I had when she chewed out someone for insulting a uniformed service member in a store.

The movie was one of the doorways that opened those two minds. Hence my point.

That being said, Tora Tora Tora is a much better movie and yes Michael Bay should be keel hauled for not attempting to get things more accurate as he could have done.

[quote="les"]Angeliccypher said:

[quote]But the level of complexity of the events surround 7 December 1941 would be almost impossible to tell accurately in a two hour format.[/quote]

I don't know about that. Tora, Tora, Tora did a pretty good job. They didn't even have CGI when it was made.[/quote]

I think the thing that contributed to the acuracy of Tora was that it was a split production, with an American and a Japanese unit. This resulted in effect , with two films (and two perspectives) in one about the same subject. The editing in the film deserves credit as well.

mitch wrote:

Guest wrote:"Oh the monkees have no tails in Zamboanga..they were bitten off by whales"

The monkees?

Presumably Davey Jones kept his in his locker? :thumbs_up_1:

I guess so...it seemed like he was the one that always got all the tail....
( or did he finally come out of the locker? )

Guest wrote:"Oh the monkees have no tails in Zamboanga..they were bitten off by whales"

The monkees?

Presumably Davey Jones kept his in his locker?

Fir Na Tine wrote:How about "They Were Expendable" ?

And the nomination for best song lyrics in a Navy movie...............

"Oh the monkees have no tails in Zamboanga..they were bitten off by whales"

How about "They Were Expendable" ?

I have Tora Tora Tora on blu-ray. I too have a soft spot in my heart for the film. Because of Dec. 7 and the film (I saw it in the theater) that is the reason I choose USS Benjamin Stoddert DDG-22 as my first ship, because she was station at Pearl Harbor, HI.

I always had a sof spot in my heart for the Tora, Tora, Tora film.
The Otoko-tachi no Yamato is also amazing, that movie really shows that war is hell !

At top of them all,
The Cruel Sea.
After a book by N. Monserat.
God actors very authenticly recorded just a few years after WWII.

Angeliccypher said:

But the level of complexity of the events surround 7 December 1941 would be almost impossible to tell accurately in a two hour format.

I don't know about that. Tora, Tora, Tora did a pretty good job. They didn't even have CGI when it was made.

In Which We Serve,
The Cruel Sea,
The Caine Mutiny,
But number 1 is Das boot.

I tend to agree, Nonetheless, what harm is there in a lttle attention to detail?

Jack

I would agree that more could have been done. I am simply offering the fact that Hollywood is more to entertain than to educate. Not to say that there are not films that do not do a great job educating. But the level of complexity of the events surround 7 December 1941 would be almost impossible to tell accurately in a two hour format. Looking at it from that perspective, even "Band of Brothers" and "The Pacific" heavily simplified the events that took place. They were more accurate I will grant you.

My overall point is two fold in that sometimes that entertainment is looked at with too critical a lens from people who know better, and that it is sometimes the case that the entertainment opens the door to furthering education for people.

Angleic Cypher said:

We can afford to be elitist because we have put the time and study into things. Think about the first model you ever built. Did you take the time to research it? Did you use PE or resin upgrades? Likely your model did not see an airbrush either. Would that first one have been worthy of a thread on this site for anything other than nostalgia or comic relief? For many of us the first kit we built was also a horrible kit. But it got us here.

I am taking the above quote out of context because it is very a propos to film making. One could should argue that, considering the resources poured ito the project, more could have been done to improve historical accuracy. The producers, Director, Actors, ext... were certainly not beginners to the film making trade.

Jack

From a historical perspective I am not impressed with "Pearl Harbor". But there are two things to consider about the movie.

1: Eye candy. You name me one other movie where you get to see battleship row like that. Granted it was CG, but it was still gorgeous. (see you comment about mute and drool).

2: Most people have no idea what happened in any frame of history. Is Hollywood accurate? Not usually. But they are great at opening the door to stir interest. For example, I study/teach a few Japanese weapons arts. Every time a movie like "Sucker Punch" or "Kill Bill" comes out, there is an insane amount of commentary about the lack of accuracy, and blatant disregard for the weapon and art the they are supposedly showing. BUT!!!!! We see a spike in students joining the school. Hell I started martial arts because of "Karate Kid". That was over 25 years ago.

We can afford to be elitist because we have put the time and study into things. Think about the first model you ever built. Did you take the time to research it? Did you use PE or resin upgrades? Likely your model did not see an airbrush either. Would that first one have been worthy of a thread on this site for anything other than nostalgia or comic relief? For many of us the first kit we built was also a horrible kit. But it got us here.

For a small group of people movies offer a door opening. And they walk through it. For the rest, at least they have a basic understanding of the basic event. Which is more than they had before.

Im sorry, but with all the garbage that gets made for the big screen or the small one...theres just no chance of getting anything close to accuracy out of hollywood, unless its both Hanks and Speilberg doing it! Either way....its time for something that hollywood should love....the US navy loses! The story of the asiatic fleet! Opens with the bombing of Cavitte navy yard, than moves on to 4 old 4-pipers gaining incredible fame at the Battle of Balikpapan, followed by the Famous Dutch enema at the battle of the Java sea, than ending with the USS Houston and HMAS Perth gaining Imortality fighting aganst insane odds at Sunda straight. In between could be filled with the humor of Dutch ignorance!!!!

Anyway...whats my favs for navy films?
1. "In harms way", because The duke NEVER made a bad film!
2. "Task Force" with Gary cooper, same as above!
3. "Das Boot"....simply the best sub movie ever made!
4. Any movie with ships in it...you simply mute the movie and drool over ships!!!!
5....forgot about "They were expendable"..because of donna reed
PS anybody who actually liked "Pearl harbor", stay away from my house, i am armed!

The original version is what we have on DVD. There was a TV broadcast of it some time later (I don't know when) that they shot additional scenes for (which included the Coral Sea segments). So technically, yes. There are two versions.

Angeliccypher wrote:Does any know how to get a copy of Midway that has the made for TV scenes with the Coral Sea scenes in it?

So there are two versions?! I could of sworn there were Coral Sea scenes in the beginning when I saw it years ago on TV and wondered where they went when they broadcast it recently. Its a long movie but they show other epic length movies in their entirety. If you find where to get a full length copy let me know man.

Does any know how to get a copy of Midway that has the made for TV scenes with the Coral Sea scenes in it?

For a bit of levity to these solemn cinematic proceedings; there was also this Navy movie made: Please read this humerous skewering at Jabootu.net (may contain some 'language'):
http://www.jabootu.com/nvnm.htm