The Ship Model Forum

chuck wrote:Let's try a more plausible scenario:
Would it help Germany if she invaded holland to ease her passage through Belgium?
?

Gone Asiatic wrote:

chuck wrote:As far back as 1900, Germany had prepared war plans against the US. It should be pointed out that Spanish-American war and the charge up San Juan hill did not impress the Germans of American fighting ability and the will to resist.

The Kaiser-dude probably was impressed with the USMC at Bellauwood

The German war plan stipulated that at the onset of war, Germany would transport 30,000 troops, on chartered foreign ships no less, to New York. Once there these 30,000 troops would seize New York, apparently overwhelming any local resistance. It is thought the loss of New York would cause American to immediately sue for peace, accepting any condition the Kaiser care to impose, thus bring the German-American war to a successful conclusion in an expeditious manner without taking even a single German corp out of the European stand off.

The Kaiser-dude evidently knew nothing of the 1812 War. Didn`t the Kaiser-dude quip that should the British army land in Europe he would "dispatch the constabalry to arrest it." (?)

chuck wrote:As far back as 1900, Germany had prepared war plans against the US. It should be pointed out that Spanish-American war and the charge up San Juan hill did not impress the Germans of American fighting ability and the will to resist.

The German war plan stipulated that at the onset of war, Germany would transport 30,000 troops, on chartered foreign ships no less, to New York. Once there these 30,000 troops would seize New York, apparently overwhelming any local resistance. It is thought the loss of New York would cause American to immediately sue for peace, accepting any condition the Kaiser care to impose, thus bring the German-American war to a successful conclusion in an expeditious manner without taking even a single German corp out of the European stand off.

ASFC wrote: You are putting words into my mouth! I said he was surronded by plenty of sycophants in his court, who would do anything to gain favour (evidence of this can be seen by the fact that Caprivi gave up after four years of being Chancellor and then followed several ineffective German Chancellors (although none as strong as Bismarck)), not that he was an idiot! My point being is that from a military point of view, the Kaiser would have been best placed with his military background to judge these things, but that politically these things would be considered by those in high up circles because they felt the need to please him with their next scheme in 'Weltpolitik'.

chuck wrote:That's not fair, you said you only had a couple of points.

I know the 30000 troop New York invasion plan can't be a serious , sanctioned war plan, but it's a good story that had a grain of truth in it. When a story is good, even if it is not entirely true, it ought to be told like it is!

JWintjes wrote: 1) "Riddle of the Sands" is a 1903 piece of fiction by Erskine Childers - I strongly suggest reading it, it's fantastic fun, and both the film and the TV series they made out of it pale into insignificance in comparison. It was hugely successful at the time, particularly as it arrived on the market when there was a (or rather another) invasion scare going on in Britain.

4) I know it is quite popular to think of German pre-war policy as being essentially the Kaiser stumbling around totally and utterly clueless.

ASFC wrote:

chuck wrote:As far back as 1900, Germany had prepared war plans against the US. It should be pointed out that Spanish-American war and the charge up San Juan hill did not impress the Germans of American fighting ability and the will to resist. The German war plan stipulated that at the onset of war, Germany would transport 30,000 troops, on chartered foreign ships no less, to New York. Once there these 30,000 troops would seize New York, apparently overwhelming any local resistance. It is thought the loss of New York would cause American to immediately sue for peace, accepting any condition the Kaiser care to impose, thus bring the German-American war to a successful conclusion in an expeditious manner without taking even a single German corp out of the European stand off.

Have you ever watched the 1978 film Riddle of the sands? (not that i'm denying that the Germans (sorry, the Kaiser) would come up with such a scheme) It should be remembered that he was surronded by a lot of sycophants in his court (like who thought they could hire these 'foreign ships'). Although i'm not sure of US Army strength at the time, it sounds like it would never have succeeded.

chuck wrote:As far back as 1900, Germany had prepared war plans against the US. It should be pointed out that Spanish-American war and the charge up San Juan hill did not impress the Germans of American fighting ability and the will to resist. The German war plan stipulated that at the onset of war, Germany would transport 30,000 troops, on chartered foreign ships no less, to New York. Once there these 30,000 troops would seize New York, apparently overwhelming any local resistance. It is thought the loss of New York would cause American to immediately sue for peace, accepting any condition the Kaiser care to impose, thus bring the German-American war to a successful conclusion in an expeditious manner without taking even a single German corp out of the European stand off.

Werner wrote:I wonder if the fact that America, which was a VERY German country in the 19th Century would side with the British and French had any moral and morale implications on the German leadership and army.