Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

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Re: Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

by Werner » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:18 pm

Jack Ray wrote:
Werner wrote:Yeah, the conservative republicans who represent Virginia,Maine, & California....

Blaming this on Republicans is foolish. It's all politicians who are responsible. They no longer work for us, they work for themselves and their colleagues.

Your last paragraph demonstrates a stunning lack of knowledge in how the Congress works. The Democrats have had absolute control in the House for the last two years, and the Senate for longer. The Republicans haven't even been able to get six judges passed in the last two years. Blaming them for this spending is idiocy.

Werner, you know as well as I do that the Democrats do not have absolute control of the Senate. For this reason they cannot quash a filbuster, nor overturn a presidential veto. It is for this same reason that the Senate cannot approve any treaty without Republican support. Again for the same reason, any legislation needing approval of both houses cannot pass without Republican support in the Senate.

This is how our legislature is designed to work. If the Dems had obtained an absolute majority in the Senate in 2006, they would have the power of a real majority and, for better or for worse, we would be living with their policies. This may yet happen in November.

Best,

Jack
Jack, re-read my post. I said Democrats have had absolute control of the House. In terms of spending, the Senate has about as much influence as the President on spending. All proposals for spending originate in the House of Representatives and must be confirmed (or influenced in reconciliation committee) by the Senate before the House gets the final vote. The President can veto a spending bill (which has been done at extreme peril a few times), and his veto is subject to a Senatorial override.

I'm sure you know real filibustering in the Senate has not occurred in years, and anytime the majority party wanted to reclaim legislative control there, they would re-implement traditional filibusters. No Senator would sit in the chamber for days reading the phone book to the Speaker today. Real filibustering is a two-edged sword that is simply too unattractive to both parties to be permitted.

The character of spending originates in the House of Representatives.

Re: Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

by SumGui » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:01 pm

Actually, the non-elected bureaucracy and irresponsible business is more responsible for overruns (not pork awards - but the budget overruns)

Next in line would be the services who seem to like to constantly change the requirements AFTER designs have been balanced and approved.

Blame politicians (of every party) for their influence in the initial awards (bring it to my district!!!) and keeping something alive that has gone terribly wrong, but the majority of the overruns are due to the entrenched bureaucracy (who just outwait whatever elected official is in their way), fraudulent and intentional overcharging (and over-promising) by the contractor, and the constantly moving target requirements of the services.

Re: Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

by Jack Ray » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:34 pm

Werner wrote:Yeah, the conservative republicans who represent Virginia,Maine, & California....

Blaming this on Republicans is foolish. It's all politicians who are responsible. They no longer work for us, they work for themselves and their colleagues.

Your last paragraph demonstrates a stunning lack of knowledge in how the Congress works. The Democrats have had absolute control in the House for the last two years, and the Senate for longer. The Republicans haven't even been able to get six judges passed in the last two years. Blaming them for this spending is idiocy.

Werner, you know as well as I do that the Democrats do not have absolute control of the Senate. For this reason they cannot quash a filbuster, nor overturn a presidential veto. It is for this same reason that the Senate cannot approve any treaty without Republican support. Again for the same reason, any legislation needing approval of both houses cannot pass without Republican support in the Senate.

This is how our legislature is designed to work. If the Dems had obtained an absolute majority in the Senate in 2006, they would have the power of a real majority and, for better or for worse, we would be living with their policies. This may yet happen in November.

Best,

Jack

Re: Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

by Werner » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:17 pm

Yeah, the conservative republicans who represent Virginia,Maine, & California....

Blaming this on Republicans is foolish. It's all politicians who are responsible. They no longer work for us, they work for themselves and their colleagues.

Your last paragraph demonstrates a stunning lack of knowledge in how the Congress works. The Democrats have had absolute control in the House for the last two years, and the Senate for longer. The Republicans haven't even been able to get six judges passed in the last two years. Blaming them for this spending is idiocy.

Re: Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

by Gerarddm » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:06 pm

That last paragraph sums it all up. It is disgusting and unpatriotic in the real sense of the word that such money sloshes around in the procurement process.

It is disgusting that for crissakes a feakin' DDG1000 costs more than a nuke sub? And one third of a CVN? Are you sh***ng me?

Moderator: Language, please.


What is wrong with this picture?

And we wonder why the dollar is almost worthless?

That last parapgraph is why the Republicans are going to be stampeded out of town in November. Not to say that it hasn't happened before, but the sheer effrontery of the amount is staggering.

By Your Favorite Deity, I am an angry taxpayer.

Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

by Jack Ray » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:58 pm

"Senate Armed Services Committee chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., said congressional auditors have identified $295 billion in cost overruns on 95 major acquisition programs now underway.

For that amount, he said, the nation could buy two additional aircraft carriers at $10 billion each, eight Virginia class attack submarines at $2.5 billion each, 1,000 fighter and transport aircraft and 10,000 mine-resistant armored vehicles for ground troops. And after those purchases, the $130 billion left would cover the entire cost of an elaborate "future combat system" sought by the Army, he said."


Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs
Norfolk Virginian-Pilot
June 4, 2008
Pg. D1

Warning: Delay On Ship Will Run Up Navy's Costs

By Dale Eisman, The Virginian-Pilot

WASHINGTON -- Plans to slow development of a futuristic new destroyer sought by the Navy will end up increasing the cost of the ship, which already is almost three times as expensive as today's destroyers, the Pentagon's top weapons buyer warned Tuesday.

John Young, the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, said a House-passed proposal to delay the planned third ship in the DDG-1000 series of destroyers would disrupt an extensive network of suppliers and subcontractors. That would mean higher prices once production resumes, he argued at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on cost overruns in major weapons programs.

The Navy has two DDG-1000s under contract, priced at more than $3 billion each, and hopes to purchase at least five more. The ships are to be outfitted with computer-controlled systems and designed to operate with crews less than half the size of the 330 needed for today's Arleigh Burke-class destroyers.

The House voted last month to delay the third ship in the series, shifting $2.5 billion to a variety of other ship programs and perhaps allowing the Navy to begin work on as many as 12 vessels in 2009, four more than the Bush administration requested.

None of the ships will be built in Hampton Roads, but Northrop Grumman, which builds submarines and aircraft carriers in Newport News, has a major stake in the destroyer program at its yard in Pascagoula, Miss..

Navy leaders argue that the DDG-1000s are a test bed for a variety of new technologies the service wants to install in another future ship, a missile-defense cruiser now designated only as CGX. U.S. Rep. Gene Taylor, D-Miss., who has led efforts to slow the program, argues that the ships are relying on unproven technologies whose spiraling costs are soaking up money needed for other programs.

Young also told senators Tuesday that restarting production of the Burke class of destroyers to fill a gap caused by delays in the DDG-1000 would make the Burke ships more expensive. The last of the Burke ships, which are priced at about $1.2 billion, was authorized in 2005 and the production line has largely been shut down, Young said.

Senate Armed Services Committee chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., said congressional auditors have identified $295 billion in cost overruns on 95 major acquisition programs now underway.

For that amount, he said, the nation could buy two additional aircraft carriers at $10 billion each, eight Virginia class attack submarines at $2.5 billion each, 1,000 fighter and transport aircraft and 10,000 mine-resistant armored vehicles for ground troops. And after those purchases, the $130 billion left would cover the entire cost of an elaborate "future combat system" sought by the Army, he said.

"We've got to implode something here," said Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo. The Pentagon and its suppliers have constructed an acquisition process in which she said "the definition of success is get the money and keep getting the money," rather than a process that is focused on obtaining needed weapons as quickly as possible at the lowest cost possible.

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