The Ship Model Forum

by **shane762** » Sun Apr 19, 2026 11:07 am

ScottMcD - That link works and those pictures are very helpful. I've seen that conversion on eBay you mentioned. There are a couple of products he has that I'm thinking about ordering.

Rick - I have those images from NavSource but I didn't realize it until after I posted my question. The downside of a poorly organized reference file.

I'm kind of bouncing around on which Fletcher to build. The Nicholas was the first to catch my interest thanks to the pictures and stories of her sailing into Tokyo Bay. But, as this is my first ship model in decades I may find an interesting subject requiring a little less conversion work and just build up parts and info to build the Nicholas later on.

by **Rick E Davis** » Thu Apr 09, 2026 9:25 am

I’m traveling and away from my desktop computer and can’t post images. But, the Navsource images for USS NICHOLAS (DD-449) dated in January 1944, are accurate for late 1945 as well.

Working with either the Tamiya FLETCHER kit or Trumpeter THE SULLIVAN's kit can be used to get to the late 1945 configuration of NICHOLAS. But, the Tamiya kit would require a lot of modifications to get to the five twin 40-mm mounts standard, since that isn’t an out of the box option. I’m not familiar with the round bridge conversion of the TRUMPETER kit, but that may be easier. But some modifications will be required depending on “now” accurate you which to model NICHOLAS. An advantage to using the Trumpeter kit as your base, is that your model can be water-line or full hull.

The 3-D printed market has several vendors that can produce replacement parts for weapons, etc. I can’t keep up with all of them and I haven’t seen all of them to verify which would be the best. Checking Model Monkey and BlackCat are ones I can recommend.

Another option “may” be available soon. The iLove company (really just another subgroup of Trumpeter) is suppose to be offering several versions of FLETCHERS and based on the STEVENS kit would be an improvement on the older TAMIYA and TRUMPETER Fletcher kits.

by **ScottMcD** » Wed Apr 08, 2026 12:06 pm

Does this link work for you? It shows the Nicholas Jan '44 refit. https://destroyerhistory.org/ussnichola ... tions.html

There is an eBay seller, tankbuster47, that offers a 1/350 3D Printed Fletcher Class '43-'45 Round Bridge that could be used with the Trumpeter 1/350 USS Sullivans kit to build a late war Nicholas. I don't know about the accuracy of the Trumpeter kit but it might get you closer to the late war fit.

by **shane762** » Tue Apr 07, 2026 8:23 pm

Howdy all,

I'm looking to gather some information regarding building a model of the USS Nicholas as she appeared at the time of the surrender in Tokyo bay. I'm planning to use the Tamiya 1/350 Fletcher as the basis but I'm trying to determine her configuration so I can figure out what changes and updates to make.

I have the photos from Navsource which will help a lot. The Destroyer History Foundation looks to have a few more but I can't get more than the thumbnail to show for those.

So any suggestions on a source for additional photos the Nicholas near the end of the war? Or at least after her last refit.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Shane

by **Killerbeans** » Wed Mar 04, 2026 6:11 pm

A valid point, but I'll acquire the parts over time. Some kits are worth the extra cost.
I'll wind up with more in 3dp parts for my 4 piper than the kit. My GMM pe set was equal to the cost of the kit. The Fletcher is a must build for me.
YMMV

by **Rick E Davis** » Sun Mar 01, 2026 7:28 pm

I don't know about the Revel 1/144 scale FLETCHER kit being a much better baseline for a good FLETCHER model. There are many omissions of equipment (nothing on the bridge wings!!!) and a big error of using the wrong version of the Mk 37 director (the modeled the taper-back Mk 37 instead of the proper square-back Mk 37. Armament is not very well molded (multiple parts for the 5-in gun mounts). In other words, the cost of replacing components with aftermarket ones in 1/144 scale will be more expensive than in 1/350 scale.

by **Killerbeans** » Tue Feb 24, 2026 9:31 pm

It seems the trumpy 1/200 Fletcher is a "B team" kit.
Basically good bones, but...
I'll likely pass, as I have a RoG 1/144 kit, but never say never.

by **KotoBuilds** » Sun Feb 01, 2026 9:15 pm

Rick E Davis wrote: Sun Feb 01, 2026 4:23 pm Once again, DON'T use the Trumpeter THE SULLIVANS kit as a reference!! This kit is terrible at accuracy (no twin 20-mm guns!! as an example).

Why even bother looking at images of USS THE SULLIVANS (DD-537) when you plan on modeling USS KIDD (DD-661)? There are normally all kinds of small differences between destroyers in the same class. Even things like framing supports for bulwarks varied, maybe due to yard practices and previous work done at other yards!! The Anti-Kamikaze upgrades were done on 53 FLETCHERS during late 1945 into 1946, by multiple yards, at least 17. Some of these "yards" weren't even officially yards (just repair bases) had NEVER done work like this on FLETCHER class destroyers!!! They were pressed into doing these upgrades due to the high demand for overhauls, plus Kamikaze, collision, and mine damage across the whole fleet. USS KIDD was modified at Hunters Point NSY, along with four sisters. THE SULLIVANS was upgraded at MINSY., along with 15 sisters.

I apologize if it came off as unknowledgeable on my front. My thought process was that if since the kit is Sullivans, what changes would I need to make, hence why the back and forth compairison. But as you said, since the kit is inaccurate on many levels, now I don't need to worry what can be kept or changed, etc. I already have all the aftermarket parts necessary to ensure it's accurate (bridge, FCS, weaponary, etc). I asked about the bulwark issue because the aftermarket PE only matches Sullivans or her sisters that recieved that specific bulwark, so I wanted to see what changes I had to make.

Noted on the Mark 63.

by **Rick E Davis** » Sun Feb 01, 2026 4:29 pm

Another point. The Mk 63 Gun Fire Control System had multiple elements to it. The director was actually a variate of the Mk 51 with added equipment. The antenna was installed on the gun mount itself, and the computer was below decks.

by **Rick E Davis** » Sun Feb 01, 2026 4:23 pm

Once again, DON'T use the Trumpeter THE SULLIVANS kit as a reference!! This kit is terrible at accuracy (no twin 20-mm guns!! as an example).

Why even bother looking at images of USS THE SULLIVANS (DD-537) when you plan on modeling USS KIDD (DD-661)? There are normally all kinds of small differences between destroyers in the same class. Even things like framing supports for bulwarks varied, maybe due to yard practices and previous work done at other yards!! The Anti-Kamikaze upgrades were done on 53 FLETCHERS during late 1945 into 1946, by multiple yards, at least 17. Some of these "yards" weren't even officially yards (just repair bases) had NEVER done work like this on FLETCHER class destroyers!!! They were pressed into doing these upgrades due to the high demand for overhauls, plus Kamikaze, collision, and mine damage across the whole fleet. USS KIDD was modified at Hunters Point NSY, along with four sisters. THE SULLIVANS was upgraded at MINSY., along with 15 sisters.

Another thing, don't necessarily think that there is a "permanent" gap in deck edge bulwark amidships. Many destroyers had a section of this bulwark that was removable to allow for gangway access and/or retrieving/loading torpedoes. Although in the case of USS KIDD, this gap in the bulwark appears was intentional to facilitate loading of torpedoes. See the attached image, you can see the small crane used for loading torpedoes. (originally the torpedo loading crane was located further forward but the addition of quad 40-mm mounts made this change of crane loading) Plus if you look close, you can see the gangway. This image and others taken at the same time, highlight the RCM equipment antennas added.

by **KotoBuilds** » Sat Jan 31, 2026 11:53 pm

Rick E Davis wrote: Sat Jan 31, 2026 9:25 pm On all destroyers with the newer "Square-Back" Mk 37 director, FLETCHER's and newer, initially had the Mk 12 radar replacing the Mk 4 radar and the Mk 22 when available. (production of the Mk 22 lagged the Mk 12 by about six months).

On the older destroyers with the "Angle-Back" Mk 37 director, SIMS, BENSON, and GLEAVES classes (the earlier Mk 37 directors didn't have room inside for Mk 12 radar equipment) couldn't have the Mk 12 radar. The USN tried installing Mk 22 radars on many of the units with the earlier Mk 37 Angle-back directors in combination with the Mk 4 radar directors, but the results weren't satisfactory. Eventually the newer Mk 28 radar (circular antenna), which had a smaller antenna and was less capable compared to the Mk 25 radar installed post-war on FLETCHER, SUMNER, and GEARING classes, but was better than the earlier Mk 4 radar.

Yes the added boxes on the back of the Mk 37 director were for the newer radar equipment.

For the larger units (battleships, cruisers, and carriers) which had the "angle-back" or "square-back" Mk 37 directors is a lot more complicated. Which units got which was depended on when they were built in the production line. For units initially equipped with angle-back Mk 37 directors, in some cases the original director was modified for newer radars. Basically, the shell needed to be modified.

Thank you for the clarification.

To jump back to the previous reply, other than the bulwark around the two waist twin 20mm being different on the Kidd and Sullivans and the differing position of the Mark 63 FCS deckhouse (which based on these two photos, Sullivans had the wall facing aft with railings around, and Kidd had the wall facing fore with railings around), those were the only differences?

by **Rick E Davis** » Sat Jan 31, 2026 9:25 pm

On all destroyers with the newer "Square-Back" Mk 37 director, FLETCHER's and newer, initially had the Mk 12 radar replacing the Mk 4 radar and the Mk 22 when available. (production of the Mk 22 lagged the Mk 12 by about six months).

On the older destroyers with the "Angle-Back" Mk 37 director, SIMS, BENSON, and GLEAVES classes (the earlier Mk 37 directors didn't have room inside for Mk 12 radar equipment) couldn't have the Mk 12 radar. The USN tried installing Mk 22 radars on many of the units with the earlier Mk 37 Angle-back directors in combination with the Mk 4 radar directors, but the results weren't satisfactory. Eventually the newer Mk 28 radar (circular antenna), which had a smaller antenna and was less capable compared to the Mk 25 radar installed post-war on FLETCHER, SUMNER, and GEARING classes, but was better than the earlier Mk 4 radar.

Yes the added boxes on the back of the Mk 37 director were for the newer radar equipment.

For the larger units (battleships, cruisers, and carriers) which had the "angle-back" or "square-back" Mk 37 directors is a lot more complicated. Which units got which was depended on when they were built in the production line. For units initially equipped with angle-back Mk 37 directors, in some cases the original director was modified for newer radars. Basically, the shell needed to be modified.

by **KotoBuilds** » Sat Jan 31, 2026 1:10 am

Rick E Davis wrote: Fri Jan 30, 2026 5:29 pm I wouldn't rely on Trumpeter's THE SULLIVANS kit being correct to begin with. The navigation bridge is the wrong shape. Look at getting Model Monkey 3-D printed upgrades. There were variations for the various Anti-Kamikaze upgraded FLETCHERS. Mostly minor. The big differences for the various units is the Mk 63 Fire Control System. Some units got it and others didn't due to shortages. Both USS THE SULLIVANS and USS KIDD did, but Trumpeter didn't supply parts for the Mk 63 FCS. Also, look closely at the Mk 63 small deckhouse for the directors. The layout varied. Both THE SULLIVANS and KIDD had double reload racks for the K-Guns, Trumpeter supplies a terrible version of a single reload rack. Black Cat has good double racks and maybe other 3-D printers(?). Study photos of USS KIDD and modify as required or you can do.

Here is an image of USS KIDD (DD-661) as she appeared when recommissioned for the Korean War. Not much had changed yet and because it is an overhead view many details show up better. When first recommissioned for the KW, the USN generally didn't make any major mods prior to shakedown. The exception was to communications and a few antennas were added to be able to communicate with operational units. Compare to the August 1945 image below.

Thank you for the quick reply. I have already purchased the correct pilot house and square bridge from Model-Monkey. I plan on building her as she exited the shipyard/ended the war with her anti-Kamikaze refit, which she should be in as her museum form. I will see if vendors have the Mark 63 FCS for the two quad 40mms (quick google search says no

)

While you're here, I would like to ask if some units received the Mk.22 radar with the Mk.4. My undertstanding is that it is usually paired with the newer Mk.12, but I've seen some pictures of the Mk.4 with Mk.22. Was it the Mk.22 or Mk.12 that necessitated the addition of two boxes on the rear of the Mk.37 director?

by **Rick E Davis** » Fri Jan 30, 2026 5:29 pm

I wouldn't rely on Trumpeter's THE SULLIVANS kit being correct to begin with. The navigation bridge is the wrong shape. Look at getting Model Monkey 3-D printed upgrades. There were variations for the various Anti-Kamikaze upgraded FLETCHERS. Mostly minor. The big differences for the various units is the Mk 63 Fire Control System. Some units got it and others didn't due to shortages. Both USS THE SULLIVANS and USS KIDD did, but Trumpeter didn't supply parts for the Mk 63 FCS. Also, look closely at the Mk 63 small deckhouse for the directors. The layout varied. Both THE SULLIVANS and KIDD had double reload racks for the K-Guns, Trumpeter supplies a terrible version of a single reload rack. Black Cat has good double racks and maybe other 3-D printers(?). Study photos of USS KIDD and modify as required or you can do.

Here is an image of USS KIDD (DD-661) as she appeared when recommissioned for the Korean War. Not much had changed yet and because it is an overhead view many details show up better. When first recommissioned for the KW, the USN generally didn't make any major mods prior to shakedown. The exception was to communications and a few antennas were added to be able to communicate with operational units. Compare to the August 1945 image below.

by **KotoBuilds** » Thu Jan 29, 2026 10:18 pm

Here again, I am working on making Trumpeter's 1.350 Sullivans into Kidd, and would like to know if there were any differences in their late war 1945 anti-Kamikaze refit. The obvious thing that stands out is the bulwark around the two twin 20mms located aft of the quad 40mm mounts.

On Sullivans, this bulwark is attached to the 40mm support, runs along the hull, curves and ends at the aft most twin 20mm. There are also slots along the bottom to allow water drainage. The top edge of the bulwark is uniform and straight.

On Kidd, this bulwark is not attached to the 40mm support, rather it begins a few feet aft and is connected by railings. The bulwark runs along the hull, curves and ends also at the aft most twin 20mm. There are no slots for water drainage, with the only slots being for the chocks. The top edge of the bulwark is not one uniform, as there is a dip that begins at the foremost twin 20mm and ends before it curves at the aft most twin 20mm.

Other than that, were there any other differences that distinguished them?

by **Jon C Ryckert** » Sun Oct 26, 2025 8:06 am

Thank you, Rick.

by **Rick E Davis** » Sun Oct 26, 2025 7:56 am

All Fletchers had the square-back Mk37 director.

by **Jon C Ryckert** » Fri Oct 24, 2025 8:03 am

I have been searching for the shell plating diagram for the Fletcher class; would anyone happen to know of where I can possibly find them? Another question, did Johnston have the flat back Mk37 or the angled version? I really can't make heads or tails looking at wreck photos as some views look angular and other don't.

by **ModelMonkey** » Mon May 05, 2025 8:37 am

KotoBuilds wrote:Are you guys working on a twin Bofors tub that sits on either side of the second funnel? I see you guys only sell the twin Bofors tub ahead of the bridge, and quad Bofors tub amidships for anti Kamikaze fits, but nothing for a twin Bofors tub aside the second funnel.

Thanks so much!

Regarding the midships tubs for twin-gun Bofors, good news, yes, they are in the design queue. It will be a while before I get to that project. I'm swamped with other work at the moment. I can't say exactly when the models will be available.

Thanks again!

by **KotoBuilds** » Sun May 04, 2025 4:47 pm

ModelMonkey wrote:We're happy to help the new Trumpeter kits with some much better-shaped and detailed 5"mounts. And some other better detailed goodies, too, for round-bridge and square-bridge ships.

Thank you, I've already ordered a square bridge for the 1/200

Are you guys working on a twin Bofors tub that sits on either side of the second funnel? I see you guys only sell the twin Bofors tub ahead of the bridge, and quad Bofors tub amidships for anti Kamikaze fits, but nothing for a twin Bofors tub aside the second funnel.

The Ship Model Forum

Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Post a reply

Expand view Topic review: Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans

Re: Calling all Fletcher class DD fans