The Ship Model Forum

by **tea monster** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:00 pm

I'm absolutely floored by the work you've done at the scale you've done it. Absolutely amazing.

I've always seen depictions of these craft and wondered what they really looked like, as a lot of the artwork of the time was very stylized to say the least.

by **callen** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:28 pm

Yes!!!!!!

Gothic Arches! I can relate, believe me.
I found IJN perforated bar useful for arches, among other things. Then there is the possibility of simply scratch building them. I've also been looking for PE sheets that have oval or circular borders around the parts, with the intent of using the actual fret material for arches. Just picked up a Lion Roar fret of little disks for some kind of Armor detail. Don't care about the parts, but the fret had lots and lots of circles for arch making...

I tell you, as I got into my carrack it really started to seem crazy the sequencing I was getting into, build a bit, paint a bit, build a little more and then paint that, build this, touch up that, paint that, leave that unpainted, etc. etc. Looks like you're going through the same thing here...

I must say my planking on my decks suffered because of all the do-overs I did to the hull color. By the time the Fora was done almost all my nice planks had disappeared under a vague wood color, etc.

Really looking good Tom! Keep us posted on your work and show us some more pics!

by **Tom L.** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:33 am

Well, here's a phone pic...

(EDIT) Lots and lots to do, I'm really sweating the support structure to the after castle, and it's Gothic arches. Hmmm.

by **Tom L.** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:23 am

Well, I'm working again, and in earnest; the local show is October 1st and I'm going. If I can keep some discipline, I might even get my little Khrabri done for it, too...poor neglected projects.

No photos, I've been in the new pad about three weeks and still haven't got my computer hooked up. Hull is almost complete, and I've started on the castles.

by **callen** » Fri May 06, 2011 5:49 pm

ARH wrote: when we started scratch and r/c I never thought we would have this many builds,

I really think this is the epicenter of the plastic model hobby, Ron; at least for the Western Hemisphere. The Japanese seem to have their own community, but I see a lot of Asians, Europeans and Americans participating here. Pretty cool. Glad to be a part of it.

by **ARH** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:53 pm

To me any update no matter how small is worth a view, it keeps the board ticking over, better than watching a screen that never moves.

when we started scratch and r/c I never thought we would have this many builds,

by **callen** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:21 pm

ARH wrote:All updates are worth posting, nice work.

I agree with Ron.

The two masted configuration definitely looks archaic (which, of course, is not a bad thing at all

) but it looks like with your 'crescent deck' reaching almost to the stem there would not be a lot of room to work a foremast anyway. Personally I think the archaic configuration will look nice, and help to make the build just that much more unique.

I must say I felt a pang of remorse when I saw your beam ends. This is a very nice and very characteristic detail, one that I had intended to model at one point, but it got pushed out of my mind in the rush to complete the masters for casting. Very nice indeed. Also your rudder is very fine. I intend to shamelessly imitate your techniques with the rudder this week-end. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

by **ARH** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:45 pm

All updates are worth posting,

nice work.

by **NukeMM** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:57 pm

This is impessive work, Tom! I like it!!

by **Tom L.** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:41 pm

Hardly worth posting, but an "update":

Making a rudder:

Planking the quarter deck bulwarks and attaching the visible ribs:

In the process of re-making the lost mainmast, and dry fitting the main and mizzen for to make purty pictures.

I intended this to be a three-master, but F.C. Lane and other sources state emphatically that this was to have been a two-master...I imagine probably one of the last of the type.

A tiny bit of progress is better than no progress, I suppose.

by **callen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:50 pm

Tom L. wrote:Oops, I must have suffered from flatus cranus in describing the planks.

It's .005 thick sheet I've been cutting the planks from. I've been trying to keep them about .020 wide. I got the .005 Evergreen sheet at a Hobbytown USA here locally.

Cutting the Planks!?!?!?

Goodness gracious. You ought to get a medal for that.

by **Tom L.** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:18 pm

Oops, I must have suffered from flatus cranus in describing the planks.

It's .005 thick sheet I've been cutting the planks from. I've been trying to keep them about .020 wide. I got the .005 Evergreen sheet at a Hobbytown USA here locally.

You're more than welcome to lift any pics I post, too; here's another little guy, looking very much like one of Iacopo Barbari's large carracks in his famous woodcut bird's-eye view of Venice circa 1500.

: unknown source carrack.jpg (14.92 KiB) Viewed 2187 times

by **callen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:51 am

Also, I hope you don't mind... I lifted those pics you posted.

by **callen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:50 am

Great to see this little gem on the make once again. Very much looking forward to the final product.

Reviewing your work once more I read '0.005' styrene planks. Is that right? If so, where did you get them? The smallest I have been able to find is 0.010 and that is a square rod, not a plank. I would dearly love to find something smaller. I have been planking my carracks with .010x.020, and that seemed plenty tedious to me. I'm just beginning to realize, your planks are a quarter of the width of mine.(!!!!) Very impressive indeed. I find your 'crescent deck' (what the heck do you call it, anyway?) very impressive and authentic looking. I have experimented with creating a similar deck from grooved plastic, but gave up. I will be attempting your method shortly.

Once again, thank you Tom for showing us the way.

Keep up the good work!

by **russclark** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:26 pm

very nice tom,you guys who scratch build in these super small scale just amaze me .if i try'd this it would get glued to my fingers and that would be all she wrote

by **Tom L.** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:06 pm

So...

Picking this back up after some kindly nudges. I've been through some exceedingly dark times since posting last in this thread; worry, depression and grief do nothing for my modeling enthusiasm.

But, here's a tiny nibble of an update to try and get things back in order:

This is as far as I got as of December 2009; forecastle template, deck fittings, quarter deck and poop deck are all dry-fitted. The solid poop-deck supports are only there temporarily, the final structure will be open supports with gothic accents (I hope!

)...I had a mainmast built, but it's been lost in the ensuing months.

Another view:

Progress? Beginning work on the latice of fender cleats:

Size comparison with Mr. Bic:

I should explain that the unsightly paint on this thing is experimentation, the following two paintings are in line with what I want color-scheme-wise.

This is a contemporary (ca. 1450) painting of Constantinople, showing carracks of a similar type in The Golden Horn; black hulls, natural wood accents.

Here's another contemporary view of some broadly similar carracks at Naples, showing very dark brown and black hulls:

So, after all this time, I guess this an update.

by **Pieter** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:07 pm

The netting supports look like the support structures for sun screens on 19th and 20th century tropical ships. I've had some success by drilling holes in the deck to support pieces of .3mm brass verticals, superglueing brass horizontals to them and filling them in with Microscale Crystal Cleer. Instead of using Crystal Clear you can maybe use old pieces of textile (pantyhose?) to represent the netting.

by **Tom L.** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:20 pm

Pieter wrote:Very nice. How are you going to build the forecastle ? It looked like a real caste on these ships, right?

In these early-mid 15th century versions, the forecastle was normally just a single level built on a very high bow, later types had the multi-storey, mind boggling tower-like castles.

: Timbotta ms 1.jpg (15.47 KiB) Viewed 3944 times

The sketch I'm basing it on shows it to be mostly open latticework, with an anti-boarding net support structure above.
I've been thinking about how I'm going to achieve it, and the stern castle is going to need a similar construct, too.
Cutting plastic sheet down to a useable size is going to stretch the material's utility to just about the breaking point, but, in my opinion, I don't know what else is going to capture the right "look", if not "feel".

by **Pieter** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:59 am

Very nice. How are you going to build the forecastle ? It looked like a real caste on these ships, right?

by **moomoon** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:50 pm

I like the deck painting very much!

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