Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

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Expand view Topic review: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by dick » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:00 pm

WW2 RN Semtex was a trowelled-on latex-based non-slip composite material. There were originally three manufacturers which may account for the varying colours reported early on.

Semtex on destroyers was actually introduced prior to WW2. It is reported to have been first used on the I class and all new construction after that.

This story has always amused me. George Mack was a seaman gunner who joined HMS Intrepid on her 1st commission in July 1937:

�As soon as we arrived in Chatham our chums began to arrive aboard to see what the new ship looked like, and to renew old acquaintances. From the jetty we looked very smart in our gleaming light grey Med Fleet colours, against the dark grey of the Home Fleet ships that were in the yard with us, but when they stepped aboard things were not so smart. We had managed to sweep up, but the decks looked filthy as they were covered in a new paste-like surface, instead of the brown corticene, held down with shiny brass strips, as on other ships.

By Sunday the POs and leading seaman had gone round other ships to borrow a supply of cleaning materials and we set to with a will to clean the upper deck. To our disgust, nothing had the slightest effect, in spite of all the skills that years of hard-won experience lavished on it! When we eventually met the rest of the flotilla we found they had been equally unsuccessful; the only real difference between the ships was that three had dirty brown decks, three dirty blue decks and three had dirty grey decks!

This curse held over us for about six months, until suddenly we noticed that the Impulsive had cleaner decks than the rest of us. In spite of her trying to keep the secret formula to herself, we soon noticed that she was washing her decks with a salt water hose, and the problem was solved. Salt water and nothing else. We now had the problem of a dirty ship's side! In all fairness however this was one of the best things that happened to destroyers. For it meant there was a really safe foothold in all weathers. Before this the decks were very slippery, and to give extra grip at sea, coconut matting was laid round the guns and along the iron deck, but the first seas coming aboard would rip the lashings, and it was a constant battle to keep it securely lashed down. Another snag about 'Semtex' was that it wore through the soles of shoes at an alarming rate, as it was like walking on sandpaper.�

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by mike mccabe » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:50 am

Wondergrip? Isn't that the stuff used to keep false teeth in place?

From a modellers perspective and one who does a lot of RN destroyers, I tend to go with time period I am modelling as the best rough guide. RN camouflage is a very complex subject, made more complex by the limited photographs available of the period, especially early war. Even when you do find a photo odds on it won't show the decks, so again speaking as a modeller and not one wanting to spend too much time researching, informed guesswork is generally the order of the day.

Early war, 39 to 40 corticene was common, or strips of it over steel painted grey. Later on when the corticene was found to wear and break up under harsh conditions, it seems some decks were merely painted steel before semtex was introduced, see John's reply for the colour of that although it varied greatly. Later on mainly darker grey depending on the scheme used.

RN ships of WW2, especially destroyers, is in no way and exact science, it seems as though no one ship was ever exactly like any other in the same class, although later in the war things become a little easier.

Of course when you have decided on the colour, there is the effect of weathering, especially those serving in areas of strong sunlight.

So to sum up, and I am speaking as a modeller and preparing myself to be shot down in flames, you have quite a bit of latitude around the base colours, stick to the basic principles I have just mentioned according to the period and you won't go far wrong. At least it will be pretty difficult for anyone to prove you are!

Mike

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by phil gollin » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:42 am

Also, please this thread on this board (posts 4 to 13) ;

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34467&start=0

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by John Snyder » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:25 pm

Hi Glen,

Roddy McCorley.

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by glen44444 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:46 pm

Thanks Guys,

Michael, Your bit added to Johns is most interesting. When I start building one of the kits, I'll ask again for some more specific info.

John, you got me. That one I've never heard before, sounds Irish. Yum!

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by Michael Riddell » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:35 pm

glen44444 wrote:I've saved all of the above. I was just about to give up. That Semtex/Cemtex bit was most of what I was looking for. Can I assume that all RN Destroyers were fitted with it?
Semtex was probably fairly common, but not universal. Some ships had corticene - a linoleum which had a reddish brown colour to it. Some had something called "Wundergrip" - no idea what colour that was!

The only thing that appears to be a constant would be the steel decks - invariably painted in a dark colour akin to AP507A or equivalent.

If you can, get yourself a copy of "The Kelly's" by Christopher Langtree - it has a chapter on camouflage which includes details on deck coverings, but it's not comprehensive and should be viewed as a guide only.

General rule of thumb would be try and get info on the specific ship at the specific time you wish to model her.

You can't make a generalisation unfortunately.

Mike. :smallsmile:

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by ar » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:44 am

[quote="glen44444"]I've saved all of the above. I was just about to give up. That Semtex/Cemtex bit was most of what I was looking for. Can I assume that all RN Destroyers were fitted with it?[/quote]

NO!

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by John Snyder » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:41 am

Hi Glen,

"No Man's Land" is correct.

I can't say for sure that all RN destroyers wore Semtex, but it certainly appears to be the case.

"Up the narrow street he stepped, smiling proud and young,
About the hemp rope on his neck, the golden ringlets clung,"

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by glen44444 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:59 am

Thanks John,

I've saved all of the above. I was just about to give up. That Semtex/Cemtex bit was most of what I was looking for. Can I assume that all RN Destroyers were fitted with it?

That piece rings a bell. Its it from "No Mans Land"?

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by John Snyder » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:48 pm

Yep, Caroline and I are both unreformed folkies--sea shanties, American, Brit, Scots, Napoleonics, etc.

Semtex/Cemtex right out of the can was grey--use Colourcoats M 16 or ACUS 02. Early war Semtex was pale buff (use ACSM 10), while late war Semtex was green (use M 19). Mid war? We just specify grey, as above. When did the change occur? Dunno--Alan Raven (who supplied the samples to Randy Short and me) never told us that....

Cheers,
John

"Did they beat the drum slowly, did they play the fife lowly,
Did the rifles fire o'er you as they lowered you down?"

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by glen444444 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:02 pm

John,

Wow, I have'nt actually started any of the models yet but am trying to asertain what deck colours I need (Spelt it correctly this time).
Nester will be in, I think, dark lower hull light upper, Quality in a scheme from one of AR's books which includes pictures. I have'nt decided on colours for the Tamiya V&W and E class as I have'nt decided which ships to do. Kelly will be done as in the kit but there appears to be some question about the colour of Semtex in it. Obviously, you are a folk fan or you would'nt have known that chorus line. I don't meet many with that interest. Good to see.

I did a search using Semtex and got hundreds of replys so I'll do another using Semtex Colour and see what hapens.

Yes, It's the same glen44444, but the site rejected it, said it was already being used. Doh!

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by dick » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:45 am

Glen,

This questions you have asked do not have a simple answer. But they have been asked before and answered on this site in many threads over the course of many years.

I suggest you use this site's search facility. Put the word "Semtex" in and I think you will find it takes you to answers to most of your questions about deck colours.

Best wishes.

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by Anthony P » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:59 am

Should we renew the discussion on the various hue of Semptex??? :big_grin:

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by John Snyder » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:27 pm

G'day Glen,

How is the rest of the ship painted?

Cheers,
John Snyder

"And the band played Waltzing Matilda, as the ship pulled away from the quay,
And amid all the cheers, the flag-waving and tears, we sailed off for Gallipoli."

(Not bad for a Yank, eh?)

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by glen44444 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:14 pm

So, May-be you could give me a range of colours that RN Destroyer's decks were painted during the war? I kneed some kind of answer, I cant just leave the deck unpainted.

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by Tracy White » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:45 pm

Would you be OK with, "there is no simple answer?"

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by mike mccabe » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:50 am

This could be fun...

Mike

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by ar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:41 am

glen44444 wrote:OK, I'll try another tack. If I'm building a Destroyer kit and no-one knows the deck colour, what colour should I use?

That depends on several things.

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by glen44444 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:12 pm

OK, I'll try another tack. If I'm building a Destroyer kit and no-one knows the deck colour, what colour should I use?

Re: Back to deck colours of RN Destoyers in WWII.

by John Snyder » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:48 pm

Basically, no.

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