The Ship Model Forum

which is why your always welcome in the kayak fleet!

speaking of Oliver, i think he should have been on the Ohio quarter... i know he wasn't from Ohio but he is probably the most important hero of Ohio in the first half of the USA's lifespan... if not entirely. yes i agree that armstrong and the wright brothers deserve it as well (you rascaly NC people reading this are always trying to steal our precious wright brothers!) But i think there was room to tribute to Perry! after all he did make Ohio and the great lakes (to an extent) forever America's! With a county named after him, and around at least 10 city's/town's bearing his name (mine being one of which, Perrysville) and a massive monument visible from miles away i think he deserved a spot.


watch... all the fuss and then someone tells me he is on it. i dont think he is, although it has been a while since i looked at one.

who is my ancestor as is mathew perry!!!

GPaulC wrote:All I want to say to this is I don't remember the Americans ever burning down the Houses of Parliament or Buck House. Oh and we won the only real frigate action of the war thanks to Philip de Vere Broke and the Shannon.

perhaps frigate to frigate action... but we won the only real naval battle thanks to Oliver Hazard Perry!

All I want to say to this is I don't remember the Americans ever burning down the Houses of Parliament or Buck House. Oh and we won the only real frigate action of the war thanks to Philip de Vere Broke and the Shannon.

Yes if you start with the first nation, yes they are more citizen of the land, but we thalk abouth the fondation of the Canada the first French in general comme here to what we can call the low Canada to make exchange with the first nation and also found a new way to the India "road of spice" not to dominate the first nation but sadly we loose the war started by the British just because they want to cut the grass to new America contry.....

If you can see I was just sarcastic about all that thing nobody is right and it's to complexe to see the real thing about that every body have a small part of the truth and for my slavery you just have to look how corrupted are my Canadian gouvernement to see all the big head was French Canadian and they was all full of big CaCa ( Scandal of commandit )

Marc Pominville
Gloup-Gloup
Montreal,Quebec
Canada

It's debatable who won. But it seems to me that Britain lost because she defeated herself. She exposed herself to real strategic risk, she dispersed her force from the main theater in Europe, she cost herself a great deal of money. But there was never any net gain she could conceivable have acquired by doing subjecting herself to any of this.

the real canadian is the native people of canada as they were here way before the french or english. the french canadians are no more slaves then the rest of the people of canada, it's all in your mind.

I thinks the real winner it's the beaver on the 5 cent, because the real Canadian are the French Canadian ( the one in the low Canada )and the English side are to much British or even American to be real Canadian and here ( sadly ) the French Canadian are still the slave of somebody, everyone ( (tourist from the world wide) which came in the Quebec province say that we are differant from the rest of the Canada and not only with the poutine, we are the real winner of the war and the bigest looser of this war Snif Snif.....

But today with the imigration process that mean nothing any more

I hope everyone will
understand my English

Marc Pominville
Montreal,Quebec
Canada

In the end I think the Canadians "won" more from the war (IMO no wins in a war, the victor only losses less) because it helped to create the environment for the eventual establishment of the Confederation along with another siminial crisis centered around "54-40 or Fight". The Treaty of Gehnt in the end really did not solve the problems that helped cause the war. One of the most important being impressment of American seaman (or more acurately seaman from American flagged merchantment). That issue had disappeared with the conclusion of the Napoleanic Wars. The US of course did establish itself as a truely independent nation that had to be treated with in the international sphere of relations. Something that I am not sure the European powers of the time recongnized. But other than that the only thing the US gained IMO is the removal or supposed removal of British influence from the Northwest Territories and the region of the Louisianna Purchase. The real losser was in the end of course Britian. While victorious in Europe the wars of the early 19th century drained her economicaly to the degree that it took her a long time to recover IMO. But fortunately for her she really had no one that could rival her in terms of her economic potential and industry at the time. But what the world as a whole gained or suffered from depending on your POV was the Pax Britianna that allowed her to stick her nose in the affairs of other nations for the next century. Just my $.02

Kenny,
If you look closely at the War of 1812 you will find it was the USA's first unpopular war fought over a system that was abolished prior to the start of the war and mismanaged to a level that totally bogles the mind.
First of all New England instigated the start of the war over the impressment of seamen on the high seas by the Royal Navy. With the end of the Napoleanic Wars the practice ended and was formally renounced by parliment before the USA declared war. After this was all said and done New England refused to participate in the war and almost seceded from because of it. More New York State Troops were stationed on the Mass. border than the Canadian border. Thirteen NY regiments refused to cross the Canadian border when ordered to as they had been raised to defend New York not invade British territory this halved the invading army dooming the invasion to defeat. The British meanwhile were not immune from folly in the affair and proceeded to ignore the important ports of New York and Boston invading instead in the Chesapeake River and march on and burning the new US Capital at Washington. Actually the first time any of my family paid a visit to the US he was a Corporal in the HLI liked it so much he came back in 1825 and settled in New York. After burning all the public buildings in the capital except the Patents Office because the clerk in charge refused to go the Sailed for Baltimore and were stopped by a stout defense of Fort Mc Henry. The peace treaty which reafirmed the status quo of the situation prior to hostilites was signed in Ghent and the Battle of New Orleans was fought after the treaty was signed. That battle brought to prominance Andrew Jackson who was the first popularist president. Who won none of the combatant nations. Who lost? The remaining North Eastern Indians. Without the support of the British they were ulitmately forced west or signed treaties pinning them to reservations. The naval war was a flea verse an elephant but the fledgling US Navy showed on a ship by ship basis they could stand up to the Royal Navy. However the much larger Royal Navy had very little problem in gradually pinning the US Navy in ports. All ten of the US Army's regiments fought in the war and for the most part did well. Probably the most lasting effect of the war was that never again would England and the US wage war against one another.
C T

yes you are right.

I thought they are called the Fenians? And they weren't really fighting for America, more to retaliate against the British for occupying Ireland.

kenny, better check your history as you got some things wrong. for example the british burnt washington but did not burn down the white house as that is the same building with additions added over the decades that existed before the war of 1812. the reason the white house is white is because of the white paint covering the scorch marks when the brits attempted to burn the building down. this is retaliation for the burning of york which is present day toronto. 3 wars the americans tried to invade & conquer canada & 3 times canada defeated you. 1st time was during the american revolution & tried to take quebec. the 2nd time during the 1812 war & the 3rd just after the american civil war when the finnigans(irish americans) tried to attack canada.

Well, if you didn't do that reversal thingy, then all your waste and stuff will flow into the lakes, right?

I thought the only significant remaining pollution in the Great Lakes was asbestos from mining operations in Thunder Bay, Canada.

W

Werner wrote:Does that include Michigan? Since 1900 the reversal of the Chicago River (one of the "Seven Technological Wonders of the Modern World", which shows you how easily our forebears were amused) sends billions of litres from The Great Lakes into The Gulf of Mexico every year (along with my toilet flushings).

W

That way it won't pollute our waters.

Does that include Michigan? Since 1900 the reversal of the Chicago River (one of the "Seven Technological Wonders of the Modern World", which shows you how easily our forebears were amused) sends billions of litres from The Great Lakes into The Gulf of Mexico every year (along with my toilet flushings).

W

Unfortunately for you but fortunate for us Canucks, you didnt gain control of them. Its called shared ownership. This is why we (as in the Canuck gov't) are currently fighting to NOT let the US take water out of the Great Lakes. Last year the Great Lakes water line in general was up to 3 FEET lower than normal due to less rain and snow, we cant afford to have you Amis draining them

Do we generally feel we 'won' the war. Likely so. This is one of the rare things Canadians take pride in but we shouldnt because it wasnt 'Canadians' who did anything. It was the British who scorched the White House and generally speaking it was the British who 'won', with some timely assistance by the natives and our local militias armed with mighty sharp pitchforks. Canadian history books generally attribute the 'winning' of the war of 1812 to a poorly organized and pitifully led US attack along with timely British counterattacks.....much the same could be said about the US war in Vietnam. No fault of the soldiers involved, just the idiots at the top.

Oh, and we gained alot from the war too.... like control of the great lakes thanks to Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry!

Do Canadians think they won the War of 1812? The answer is yes and no.
If the stated goal of the United States was the physical conquest of Canada, then
'yes' Canada 'won' by not being over-run. But there was little martial glory in it
for Canadians. The main battles in what is now southern Ontario were determined
by small forces of British regulars aided by local militia and in the first year of the war
by natives. The key to not being over-run was not what the British regulars did or the
militias -- it was the war plans and general incompetence of American land forces (as
opposed to the generally excellent fighting qualities of American naval forces). The key
to Canada in 1812 was assembling an army and driving the Lake Champlain -- Richelieu
River -- Montreal corridor. Take Montreal and you have Canada. But American forces
did not try this until the fall of 1813 -- and then were beaten back by small force of
canadien militia. So, Canadians really don't believe they 'won' the war: the view is that
the Americans didn't win it. The peace treaty restored everything as it had been before
the war but it did lead to one interesting outcome -- the world's longest and most
successful naval disarmament treaty which from 1818 essentially demilitarized the
Great Lakes.