The Ship Model Forum

by **Bigdaddy Mark** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:03 am

drdoom1337 wrote:I've never had to thin future, but I don't use a siphon feed brush. My Krome and Omni are gravity fed and eat it right up. I don't like the way future levels out on models. I always get a pebbly finish. I know there are a variety of reasons for this, but instead of trying to solve the problem, I've opted to use Mr. Color Super Clear III and Model Masters Gloss Clear Lacquer for gloss coats. Flat coats are done with Alclad flat. Never had a problem.

That pebbly finish is what I was getting before I started using Windex.

by **drdoom1337** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:34 am

I've never had to thin future, but I don't use a siphon feed brush. My Krome and Omni are gravity fed and eat it right up. I don't like the way future levels out on models. I always get a pebbly finish. I know there are a variety of reasons for this, but instead of trying to solve the problem, I've opted to use Mr. Color Super Clear III and Model Masters Gloss Clear Lacquer for gloss coats. Flat coats are done with Alclad flat. Never had a problem.

by **Bigdaddy Mark** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:29 am

OK, I'd like to give a little update to this thread.
I was having a heck of a time spraying Future floor wax. I tried different pressures, distances, and speeds, but just couldn't get the results I liked.
Then I noticed the Future is a bit thicker than the thinned paint I've become use to using.
I mix my paint with Alcohol until if barely sticks to the side of my mixing cup. I've read descriptions saying to thin it to a milk consistency, and that's what I try for. I noticed my Future seemed a bit thicker than this mix, so I scoured the web looking for answers.
I ended up mixing Windex into the Future until it seemed correct.
Next I upped the pressure of the gun to about 12.
This and a few coats gave me a perfectly smooth clear gloss finish.

Once I got spraying the gloss down it was easy to get the flat coat I wanted.
I used the Tamiya X-21 Flat Base with the Future/Windex mix. I did add a bit more Windex to compensate for the thickness of the X-21.
It took a few light coats, but I have a perfectly flat finish!

Both the Harriers and the hanger bay were sprayed with this mix.
I can't ask for more than this. No mess no easy to mix, very quick drying, and best of all, no smell.

by **boomstick68** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:21 pm

I totally agree with Ryan, I may be new to ships, but I've been using MM acrylic flat clear on my aircraft for 20 years and now my ships with fantastic results. I use windex with the clear flats because alcohol seems to dry it out or something and leaves white specs. I also use windex with future when sprayed.

by **Bigdaddy Mark** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:59 am

sgtryan13 wrote:I thin all of my MM, Tamiya, Poly and MM Flat acrylics with widex type glass cleaner. I like it better than the alcohol, not sure why, maybe it is the ammonia or something, or maybe it is just that I am resistant to change once something works well for me

Either way, I have never tried alcohol with the flat coat, though it would probably be fine. I thin it with the windex and spray it with great results. Don't worry, the blue color of the windex will have no effect ont eh color of the clear coat or the under laying colors. I even thin white paint with the stuff and it has no effect.

Outstanding! I can get a gallon of Windex for about nothing. I'll give it a try.
Thanks for the quick response.

by **sgtryan13** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:15 am

I thin all of my MM, Tamiya, Poly and MM Flat acrylics with widex type glass cleaner. I like it better than the alcohol, not sure why, maybe it is the ammonia or something, or maybe it is just that I am resistant to change once something works well for me

Either way, I have never tried alcohol with the flat coat, though it would probably be fine. I thin it with the windex and spray it with great results. Don't worry, the blue color of the windex will have no effect ont eh color of the clear coat or the under laying colors. I even thin white paint with the stuff and it has no effect.

by **Bigdaddy Mark** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:15 am

sgtryan13 wrote:
Bigdaddy Mark wrote: but I'm going to be spraying over Future and an oil wash, so I have to ask, is it safe over the oil wash? Thanks.

Absolutely 100% safe, no worries at all!

I paint solely with acrylics, overcoated with future, and weathered with oil paints, and I use the model master flat coat in the jar sprayed through my airbrush on every single model I build. It will not have a negative effect on any of those materials at all, as it is an acrylic type flat coat. The only thing to be careful about (this goes for any type of coat though) is that if you spray on too much to the point that it pools and puddles, it can appear milky or chalky on the finish. the other thing to look out for is that the flat coat can stay moist and sticky for a little longer than a regular coat of acrylic paint, so be sure not to touch it till it is dry or it will pick up your finger prints, same goes for making sure that you don't clean out the lint trap next to it or brush the dog while it is still sticky.

Thin it till it is basically the same type consistancy as the future, then spray it on. It is best to do several thin coats to ensure complete flat finish and prevent the pooling. One of the great guys (can't remember if it was Dan, Martin, or Keith) at mosquitocon a few years ago who went over the truman with me gave me some advice I will never forget and has served me well since, and that was that they keep flat coating until they are completely satisfied that the ship is flat, then they do it one moer time after that. Those were some great words to build by.

Thanks
I'll pick up some MM flat. What do you thin it with? I've been thinning everything with 90% Isopropyl Alcohol.

by **sgtryan13** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:41 am

Bigdaddy Mark wrote: but I'm going to be spraying over Future and an oil wash, so I have to ask, is it safe over the oil wash? Thanks.

Absolutely 100% safe, no worries at all!

I paint solely with acrylics, overcoated with future, and weathered with oil paints, and I use the model master flat coat in the jar sprayed through my airbrush on every single model I build. It will not have a negative effect on any of those materials at all, as it is an acrylic type flat coat. The only thing to be careful about (this goes for any type of coat though) is that if you spray on too much to the point that it pools and puddles, it can appear milky or chalky on the finish. the other thing to look out for is that the flat coat can stay moist and sticky for a little longer than a regular coat of acrylic paint, so be sure not to touch it till it is dry or it will pick up your finger prints, same goes for making sure that you don't clean out the lint trap next to it or brush the dog while it is still sticky.

Thin it till it is basically the same type consistancy as the future, then spray it on. It is best to do several thin coats to ensure complete flat finish and prevent the pooling. One of the great guys (can't remember if it was Dan, Martin, or Keith) at mosquitocon a few years ago who went over the truman with me gave me some advice I will never forget and has served me well since, and that was that they keep flat coating until they are completely satisfied that the ship is flat, then they do it one moer time after that. Those were some great words to build by.

by **Bigdaddy Mark** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:16 am

sgtryan13 wrote:Mark, I am curious, as I have never heard of theis future + XF-21 technique... what is the reason for mixing this concoction when you have several choices for clear flat coats that can be thinned and sprayed directly fromthe jar? I have always used model master flat coat with great results, just thinned them down a little with windex and I spray away.

I like the Model Master Spray Can, but it's a lacquer, and the smell is horrible. Messes with the wife's asthma.
I'm game for trying the Model Master flat coat, but I'm going to be spraying over Future and an oil wash, so I have to ask, is it safe over the oil wash? I'm done spraying the aircraft, but will soon be on to the ship, and would hate to have an problem because the flat coat and the wash and Future didn't like each other.

Thanks.

by **sgtryan13** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:18 am

Mark, I am curious, as I have never heard of theis future + XF-21 technique... what is the reason for mixing this concoction when you have several choices for clear flat coats that can be thinned and sprayed directly fromthe jar? I have always used model master flat coat with great results, just thinned them down a little with windex and I spray away.

by **ESzczesniak** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:33 pm

I haven't used the Future + XF-21, but have thought about it in the past. I believe people who have been using this used between 1:5 and 1:7 (XF-21:Future) to achieve a dead flat. Obviously, use less XF-21 for semi-gloss if desired.

by **Bigdaddy Mark** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:14 pm

I've been using my airbrush for a few months now, and love the results.
I'm using Tamiya paints thinned with 90% Isopropyl Alcohol, and am very happy with the results.
I'm still brush painting the Future clear coats.
I attempted to spray Future, but didn't know what I was doing, and didn't like the results I was getting, so I went back to the brush.
Tonight I sprayed Model Master Lusterless (Flat). It does a good job, but I'm forced to spray it outside because of the smell, and that just won't do.
I've read you can use Future and Tamiya Acrylic X-21.
Can someone please give me a base line to go by?
I'm using a Harbor Freight Deluxe Airbrush Kit, that I absolutely love. It's comfortable for me and easy to clean

I'm spraying at about 8 to 10 PSI with paint that's about milk consistency.
What mix and pressures should I use as a baseline to get a flat coat?

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