How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

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Expand view Topic review: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by MM2CVS9 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:01 am

GMM 1/700 PE for my essex's is done w/ stainless steel. In that scale they are a little tougher and less easily destroyed, especially the rails. I've had no need to anneal even when bending the deck edge antennas. Havn't done a 1/350 scale yet. Those PE sets are brass.
I've checked the thickness of all the PE I have and they vary depending on the set, from .003 to .010 inches. I wonder if the thickness and maybe even the specific alloy used in the brass might have something to do with it's bendability?

SCALE - MANUFACTURER - MATERIAL - NOTES - THICK in decimal Inches
1/350 -
White Ensign -
Brass - Wasp set, very fine - .005
Brass - Rail & perf catwalk fret - .0045
Brass - Vehicle & aircraft frets - .004

Unknown
Brass - Wasp kit PE set - .006

Gold Medal
Brass - Essex setLexington set - .005
Brass - Liberty ship set - .0075
Brass - Aircraft detail set - .010

Tom�s Model
Brass - Essex set - .005
Brass - Carrier baskets - .003

1/400
Tom�s Model
Brass - Titanic set - .005

1/540
Gold Medal
Brass - Essex for Revell set - .005

1/700
White Ensign

Gold Medal - Stainless Essex set - .0035
Stainless - Essex extras anchors, doors - .005
Stainless - Essex extras 20mm guns, ladders - .003
Stainless - Aircraft detail set - .0055

Tom�s Model
Brass - Essex set - .003

Unknown
Brass - Dragon kit set - .0045



EJ

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by Christian M. » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:46 am

sgtryan13 wrote:In my experience, Eduard is made of photo etched steel if I recall. GMM and WEM are both way easier to handle, accept bends better, and with the exception of bending a part numerous numerous times to get it right, I have never had a break. Eduard is a cheaper alternative, but the few times I have tried them, I have been disappointed, so I stay with GMM and WEM whenever possible.

Eduard has indeed mostly silver like PE frames, but at the BigED set of them for 1/350 USS Arizona I had strange issue.
As you know, if you heat bigger PE parts (never do with smaller one like railing, they burn away!) over fire to glowing and then cooling down in water etc., they are easier to bend. I did with the big "houses" on top of the masts and "wooops", after it they were brass and not further silver!

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by oierlings » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:08 am

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by MM2CVS9 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:59 am

Seems to be differing opinions on annealing brass. See the following two articles.

Article #1
However, before brass is molded into different items, it has to undergo a process known as annealing. During the manufacturing process , the brass is heated, which hardens the alloy and makes it difficult to cut and work with it. Furthermore, brass cannot be bent after the initial heating process. To make the brass soft and ductile, it is heated to a certain temperature and then cooled slowly. After brass undergoes the annealing process, it can be cut and shaped rather easily.

Read more: Techniques of Annealing Brass | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8644427_techni ... z2HrpQ57iD

Article #2 ( see part one, Copper and part two Brass
How To Anneal Copper

The copper should be clean and bright, otherwise oxides will form and become embedded in the surface on heat-up, and should be warmed up with a blow-lamp (a kitchen stove will do this at a push) generally rather than at a specific point, although copper tends to spread heat quickly through the metal.
Once a background heat is produced, when the metal shows different colours radiating away from the heat source, then you are looking for a dark red (plum colour) reaching the part you want annealing � it�s like the colours of the rainbow moving from blue through to bright red as the hottest.
Once this occurs quickly immerse the copper you are annealing into a water bath, and that�s it. Job done.
The easy test is to tap it with a screwdriver or something similar. If you hear a ringing sound, the copper is still hard and needs to be annealed again. If the sound is dull then you have annealed the copper properly.
Don�t delay the quenching too much otherwise you will not achieve the annealed copper you were aiming for.
Before you begin to work the copper you must remove any surface oxides that have formed with a wire brush, wire wool or emery cloth as these become embedded, spoiling the appearance, and are difficult to remove later.

How To Anneal Brass

Annealing brass is very similar to copper although the temperature should be a little cooler.
What you are looking for as you apply the flame of your blow-lamp onto the part to be annealed is the tell-tale colours again.
When the brass starts to show a blackened colour, then is the time to quench it quickly before cleaning it up.

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by NigelR32 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:18 am

I think I'm right in saying that Brass, unlike other metals is annealed by quenching in water. Steel is hardened by quenching, and annealed by letting it cool slowly, brass is the opposite.

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by Guest » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:57 pm

Anneling is a good idea as Tradevman1 pointed out but be very careful with any of the tin coated stuff. The tin is there to help prevent tarnishing and is easier to clean so paint will adhere better. Also if you find a watch tool supplier on line http://www.esslinger.com/watchmakertweezers.aspx and get a good precision stainless tweezer or two it will help. Don't go for the $5 tweezer, spend the bucks and get good ones. They can be resharpened if the tip gets blunted and if bent they can be annealed, straightened and reheated and quinched in water to harden. Naturally you will need cheap ones to heat stuf with and hold parts while painting but go for the good one when bending PE.

Jewelry and watch tools are perfect for modeling.

EXCEPT FOR THOSE BLASTED GRAB HANDLE LADDERS!!! Any input on those would be greatly appreciated!!!

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by TRADEVMAN1 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:13 pm

Having worked around metal for most of my adult career, I would have to say that before cutting and bending any metal, in most cases it is best to anneal it. (Heating, then slow cooling) This removes stress, and brittleness in the metal. This makes it easier to bend without breaking.

SECONDLY..... If you have been working a piece already, screwed it up and have rolled it to flatten it out to try again, anneal it again!!!! Bending, rolling Etc. work hardens the material, and can make it brittle. An alcohol burner found in the old 1970s chemistry sets works best as it gets hot, and leaves no residue. It is hard to overheat brass by the way. Check the internet for information, and the best information is from jewelers. People doing ammunition reloads have a different set of criteria they are trying to work to than modelers are.

Hope this is helpful.

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by Builder 2010 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:51 am

Eduard is brass also. They tin coat the material. When you file it, it's brass underneath. I may have to spring for another $45 to get the GMM Missouri advanced set, although I'm not so happy about it.

I bought the 40mm ammo racks from Alliance. They're so small, they're unworkable. To make matters worse, they have no way of spacing one rack on top of the other. I may buy the GMM set just to get their ammo racks which have their own fold-down tabs to space one on top of the other.

Eduard's problem is not one of quality. It's one of accuracy. Too much accuracy. When you try to etch to true proportions at 1/350 you get some very small cross sections. I'm having a similar problem on some of the inclined ladders where the railings are almost etched through on the fret. I've got some old GMM that I'm using in these instances. They're not as elegant, but their indestructible and fold nicely.

Myles

Re: How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by sgtryan13 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:30 am

In my experience, Eduard is made of photo etched steel if I recall. GMM and WEM are both way easier to handle, accept bends better, and with the exception of bending a part numerous numerous times to get it right, I have never had a break. Eduard is a cheaper alternative, but the few times I have tried them, I have been disappointed, so I stay with GMM and WEM whenever possible.

How to Fold Eduard PE without it Falling Apart

by Builder 2010 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:08 pm

I've been building models for 55 years, and this is my 2nd Tamiya 1/350 Missouri. The first was done 26 years ago right before the age of PE. This one is getting all the bells and whistles, including Eduard PE, ABER brass 16" rifles, and Scaledecks tinted maple decks. I've done a lot of work already, but am running into a brick wall on some of the smaller folds. I ran into this same problem with the 40mms quad mounts. Eduard was kind enough to send me a complete PE set (4 frets) even though I only wanted certain parts.

I'm modeling the ship as it was immediately after the Surrender Signing in Tokyo Bay on her way back to Pearl. The wood decks were returned to her natural wood, but metal decking was still 20b deck blue, and the 20mm tubs were removed on the main deck abaft the #2 turret. They eventually removed the large tub in the middle of the aft main deck, but I've chosen to leave that.

Here's the ship as it is now. I'm working the midsection first before gluing the decks into the hull. I want to handle the hull as little as possible.
Deck Stanchions 3.jpg
What's driving me crazy is the MK 37 gun director's finely etched radar base framing. Remember, I have two full sets of these enough to make 8 units. What I got was one (1) complete unit and the rest scrap. Here's the finished unit. Looks great! Too bad it's the only one.
MK 51 1.jpg
With the others, some lost parts while still on the fret. Like this:
MK 51 3.jpg
And the rest, either fell apart after the first bend, like this:
MK 51 2.jpg
Or they fell apart when handling them to place them on the base. Now I have to figure out what to do next. If I had MicroMark's photoetch production materials, I made them myself. I have three units left from the old Missouri with their plastic support frame. (There's only 3 because I already cannabalized one to replace a new Mo unit that had lost it's range finder moldings on one side...damaged in the box). Any ideas about scratchbuilding that doesn't require PE would be helpful. Also, what about the other PE sets for this ship... GMM, WEM, Tom's Modelworks, Alliance Models, or Lion Roar... do any of these have the radar base frames well-executed?

I really need some help here.

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