The Ship Model Forum

by **rbauer** » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:33 pm

Chris:

Wow, this worked really well. I got exactly the materials that you recommended, getting a bit wider (maybe too wide) brush to lay down the gel. It was fantastic. Just finished using the punch out for the main guns as a sample, and glued it to the underside of the deck plastic:

Rick (Colorado)

by **rbauer** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:51 pm

Chris:

I am working on three Trumpeter BB-63 Missouri decks, and made the mistake of trusting the adhesive back on one of them. Scraping it off was painful, but I finally found the right tool (a perpendicular flat Xacto blade to use as a scraper).

Searched a bit to find what I think is mature guidance from someone who knows his decks. Thanks for your clear writing and detailed instructions; you must have been a teacher in some previous lifetime since your prose is clear without being overly pedantic. Very easy to read.

So I just ordered the materials you suggested and will give it a whirl.

I appreciate this forum because the people seem to really want other modelers to grow in their skills. I am making two of the BB-63's into the Tokyo surrender "blue" decks, so I read with interest some of the possible issues--will post pics once I get there. The other BB-63 is the standard ash--all three decks are from Pontos, and I do like their laser work, for sure.

Thanks again, and I will post when I have something to show. A pile of razor-cut ash scraps scraped from my deck, sitting in the trash can is not very encouraging--yet!

Rick
Colorado

by **Guest** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:51 pm

Neat Idea Sargentx: I have been experiencing an undue amount of "wood deck angst" as I am getting near to putting it on my 1/200 Arizona. Your simple but effective method is the answer. Thanks for sharing. I will have to hit the Hardware store too for some Krylon.
Your airbrushing from afar seems to be a neat answer too to the natural flow of wood grain and to tone down the "wood".

by **sargentx** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:05 pm

Gloss acrylic gel dries clear. Of course you should test it first, but I would say it would be fine. Scrubbing and frothing matte gel *might* leave a milky residue, but I doubt it. I darkened my Howe deck significantly and had no issues with the process showing up later as stains etc.
The decks can take water quite well. They don't warp or anything and the gel is easy to wipe off. Just be extra sure to get ever little goober off before they star drying. I work one end to the other at about 6 inch segments at a time as I go. Any gloss that remains after the fact will disappear with your matte final coat.
Test it first. Seriously.

by **Ted Bunn** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:22 pm

Hey Chris,

How do you think the gel method would work on a 20-B blue stained deck ? Would the gel and water used to clean off the excess permenantly stain the blue in the deck ?

by **ardon2** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:02 pm

Thanks for the tip on your solution to wooden decks. It's a must try.

by **ModelMonkey** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:11 pm

Brilliant solution! I'll give it a go.

by **sargentx** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:27 am

Last summer I spent a small fortune and purchased every product I could find that could work as a primer. Among others, I tried Tamiya fine surface, fusion for plastics, automotive primer, and several others. I test sprayed them on washed styrene and let them cure over night. I did a scratch test on all of them to compare their adhesion. Krylon Matte finish was the winner by a very large margin. It's quite difficult to scratch it off plastic. Surprisingly, Tamiya fine surface was no finer than any of the others and performed the worst of all. So...as a "primer" Krylon matte is the best for plastic; at least proved by my testing.

As a base coat 'primer', any slight coarsness of the spray gets lost throughout the painting of the model and becomes a non-issue. Its coarsness is no more rough than the frosted plastic that some kits have to help in paint adhesion.

As a final matte or gloss finish, Krylon may be too coarse for your liking. I do find however that it has more to do with how you apply it than anything else. If you do numerous layers spraying at a distance, you'll get a coarser finish. However, a relatively fast , closer pass will dry very smooth.
As a final finish for my models I use an amazing product by Golden called acrylic polymer varnish. This comes in matte or gloss. You simply thin it with tap water 2:1 varnish to water and it will give you the most beautiful ultra matte finish. The gloss will give you a nicely scaled semi-gloss look. It's also good for laying down a pre-decal surface. For a pre-decal surface I'll also use Krylon crystal clear. I spray fast, close and heavy and only where the decal will go and it gives me a glass-like surface.

by **biggles2** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:52 am

Which would you say is more effective - Krylon matte, or Tamiya flat base/Future mix? I've used Krylon before on art projects and the spray is somewhat coarse; with the Tamiya/Future mix you can vary the degree of flatness, and since you airbrush it, it has a very fine spray. Or does it make no difference whatsoever, and only depends on whichever you like the smell of best?

by **sargentx** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:47 pm

Ya...I don't think it matters. By 'priming' I was just meaning painted. Gel medium will have a natural affinity to tamiya acrylic paints or other acrylics. It will stick well enough for our purposes to just about anything. I've gelled decks to raw plastic and been fine.

I don't prime my ships per-se, but rather base coat them with Krylon Matte Finish. I love this stuff so much I should be a representative for Krylon. This spray will give you an unparalleled pre-painting surface. It sticks to just about anything far more effectively than Tamiya or other primers. It dries super flat and matte and takes airbrushing and hand brushing like a dream. Sorry, that's my ad. I've run them before ; )

by **biggles2** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:22 pm

This is very useful info, as I have yet to use a wooden deck (too chicken!). You say to prime the deck before gelling the wooden one down - if I paint the plastic deck matte gray (or whatever color the metal parts should be - hatches, fairleads, etc.), would that be equivalent to priming it?

(Of course, I could always use Tamiya gray primer)

by **sargentx** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:47 pm

For this Wisconsin build, I"m using Pontos decks. By and large they ARE very well shaped. They only needed light adjustments here and there...and some of those were due to how I glued things down; so my fault on some of the adjustments! They're pretty good. I will say though that the Pontos deck in this set was reluctant to let the little internal pieces go. I had to cut many of them with my knife to free them. It wasn't terrible.

I like this procedure because it allows me to be a modeller...ie. carefully dry-fit my shapes, be certain of fit, some play when gluing them etc. Also, I've heard that for some, the self-adhesive decking lifts over time. My friend has already got lifting problems on a build that's no less than a month old. I can't live with this uncertainty. On a primed deck, the gel medium will never release. Once dry, it's as good as melted onto the deck.
It's pretty stress free too which is nice...That stickiness is just insane!

by **sgtryan13** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Huh, seems like a nice solution to the scary 1 shot and done adhesive to the decks, I may have to give it a try. What decks are you using? You mentioned trimming being necessary, and while I have only used Artwox wooden decks, their fit could not have been more perfect, and all the sections you need to remove stayed firmly attached to the sticky sheet.

by **sargentx** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:56 pm

Part 2

by **sargentx** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:55 pm

This is how I do wooden decks when I use them. Since I was doing some today, I thought I'd post some pictures of the procedure. For me this is a more forgiving and permanent alternative to the the frighteningly sticky backings. I like the idea of modifying the color of the decking as well.
Killing the adhesive beforehand allows fitting and some open time for positioning when applying the sheets. The gel medium will never fail over time, so that is a nice insurance policy! Anyway, the pictures say it all. I use Krylon matte finish to kill the adhesive, but I suppose any kind of matte, acrylic spray would do.
Sorry if this is a rehash of something out there already.

[Moderator edit: and here's the link to colouring the decks: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=154098]