The Ship Model Forum

Hi Badkeson,

I found your thread and I was wondering how you ever made out with your Mitschner. I'm currently restoring this smaller, wood/fiberglass version:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1994654700650053&type=3

I did serve on her but in the DDG 35 configuration in the 76 to 77 time frame. scottmax1234@gmail.com

G'day Mick,
Thanks for the words of encouragement :big_grin:
Know the pain with being busy with work... hard to take isn't it?....
Loved the link and the fishing trawler, looked awesome. Hope to finish off the plates and the running gear soon, undercoat and test float.
Will post some more pics soon.
Kind Regards,
Gav

Hello Gav,

Been tied up a little bit lately so just now getting back to your build. Working in steel has to be without a doubt, a learning curve. After reading the online article I posted the first thing that struck me was how similar the techniques for plating were to those you had originally envisioned using. From my own perspective, I like your idea of a steel framework clad in steel. And something else I came across suggest its not out of the question for an RC build.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4LPJj_GpJU&noredirect=1
This is a steel frame model with a different approach to plating. And look at how many frames it has! Can you imagine what all that copper, solder, brass and body filler weighs? yet the hull had barely any draft when tested.
I think your original take was spot on when you mentioned it might work if the material was thinner.
You mentioned you did it "wrong" this go around after reading the bit I posted.
I'd say your ability to adapt the build so the end goal can still be achieved is commendable! Nothing wrong about it.
And every bit of information that makes it to the internet regarding building in steel is of great value to those that may have an interest. I mean it isn't like you can go to any ship modeling forum and find hundreds of tips on the subject or dozens of online scratch builds. :rolf_3:
Will continue to watch and learn from your project.
I would like to build in steel also,.. and very much in the fashion you outlined.

Cheers mate, keep up the good work!

Mick

G'day Mick,
Mate, how can I ever thank you enough? That was an amazing site, although I have started wrong on this model and will finish it as planned, the next one will be along these lines. I am going to buy one of the books and have saved the link :thumbs_up_1: :big_grin:
Thankyou again !!!
Gav

Hello Gav,

I've been doing some snooping around on the net and found this,
http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/model-shipbuilding-in-steel/480
Apparently there was a fellow who wrote several articles on building model ships from steel. Seems he has passed, but his information photos and such are still out there and available. I thought of your ship as soon as I came across this article. The model shown is not a deep draft or wide beam, yet is intended for RC.
It looks like the hull is built the same way you described plating your model as originaly intended, but he used A "solid hull" model to shape and solder his plates over instead of a framework.
Anyway, thought you might enjoy this.

Mick

[quote="Mr. Bean"]I see you chose to weld the framework. Had you ever tried solder? If you had chose to plate her in steel, how would you have attached the shell, and what would you use to seal the seams?
Have you built other metal ships?
Do you know of any builds in metal that can be viewed on the net?


Mick[/quote]

Happy New year all,
Good afternoon Mick,
Thanks for your encouraging words :big_grin: I chose to weld the frame as I was looking to solder the skin on, and as the soldering on the skin would likely have remelted the caps on the ribs, this would have made the process much more complex and harder to finish. The caps on the ribs were wide enough to ensure a good bonding area so that it would seal. The method I was intending to use was to make paper templates of each section and then transfer this to the skin material, then shape the skin to be a good fit. I would then use my old fuel powered soldering iron (Barthel) and put a layer of solder on the rib cap and then on the skin plate where the skin will contact the rib cap. Then with a cold wet rag, I would then slowly move the soldering iron over the area, this would melt the solder and create the union, and as I follow closely with the wet rag, it will cool the joint sufficiently to form a sealed bond. This would mean that nothing else would be required to seal the hull. Unfortunately, this is a heavy option and this model would not have been able to float with the guage of steel being used (1.6mm). A much larger scale (1:36) or much thinner material (0.5mm)would be much more successful. The only other hull I have made was the tug I built, it had a steel keel and ribs and used a balsa skin on that vessel also.
I am not aware of any other metal hulled models on the net at this time. I just had steel available and wanted to see how successful it would be. To be blunt, it is a pain to work with, but with practice, I believe I can get the work neater and with thinner material, it may prove to be viable in the long run.
Kind regards,
Gav

Hello,

I love your project, the use of metal for a ship has long intrigued me.
If you dont mind I have a few questions.
I see you chose to weld the framework. Had you ever tried solder? If you had chose to plate her in steel, how would you have attached the shell, and what would you use to seal the seams?
Have you built other metal ships?
Do you know of any builds in metal that can be viewed on the net?

Your project is exciting, and will be watched closely. :shipcaptain:

Mick

[quote="russclark"]hello,nice work on the rudders and plating,what type of glue did you attach them with,i used contact cement tricky because one could not move them once they were put on.it is a very time consuming job but the end results are worth the effort.[/quote]

Merry Christmas Russ,
Thanks for your kind words.
I used the Selleys Vertical Kwik Grip contact cement. It is a jelly like version of the normal contact, but I read on the tin at the bottom that you can wet stick things. This is good for small items, so I would apply the glue and immediately start putting the plates on and then use copious lengths of tape to hold the plates down. I could move the plates around for up to 10 minutes before it was permanent. I would leave the tape on overnight and then peel it off. So in 2 days I did one side in this manner. That 500 gram tin cost me about $15 at Bunnings and I have used about half a tin, so hope I will finish without having to buy more. :smallsmile:
If you desire, when I am doing the other side, I will take some pics of the process, just let me know.
Have a great day,
Gav

hello,nice work on the rudders and plating,what type of glue did you attach them with,i used contact cement tricky because one could not move them once they were put on.it is a very time consuming job but the end results are worth the effort.

Been busy since I last posted, have made the rudders and set them in and plated half the ship with aluminium plates. I utilised the process as described by ARH for the USS Moffett DD362 http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=8912 . Very informative build.
Anyway, back to the Mitscher, here are the pics.
[attachment=4]tn_PICT2059.JPG[/attachment] Not an overly great pic of the rudders, if anyone wants a closer shot, let me know... anyway, rudders were made from 3mm brass plate and the post made from 6mm plate, all filed down to aerofoil shapes and pinned through to enable them to be turned. :thumbs_up_1: At least they will work.
[attachment=3]tn_PICT2067.JPG[/attachment] Better view of the rudders here... my soldering, well, yeah, need more practice.
[attachment=2]tn_PICT2066.JPG[/attachment] Here she is, one side done, ( except for the keel), all the plates measure 26mm x 52mm, going by pictures and a guesstimation of men versus plates on real ships, I cut the plates to represent 6'x 12'. Hope that is close to the real thing.
[attachment=1]tn_PICT2068.JPG[/attachment] Here is a view of the bow. one side done, the other not... think the plates set it off nicely.
[attachment=0]tn_PICT2069.JPG[/attachment] Just over 200 plates on so far...
Well, thanks for looking and hope to get some more plates on before new years :big_grin:

[quote="Goodwood"]I'm reminded of the bloke who built a 1/20 scale [i]Graf Spee[/i] that he could drive from within the boat itself! If you're going as big as 1/36 scale on your planned (anticipated?) battleship, I say go whole hog and make it in an even bigger scale so you can do the same thing! One of my life's ambitions is to build (or at least [i]help[/i] to build) a 1/32 or 1/24 scale (possibly 1/18 scale) USS [i]Enterprise[/i] CV-6, complete with air wing.[/quote]


Sir,
Wow, that truly will be an engineering feat. Good luck with that. :smallsmile:
I must admit that a model of 1:36 and at 23 feet and 1 ton, I will be at my limits... plus it is still a few years off... dunno how I would go at 1:18... that would be a model of 45 feet long, beam of 6.5 feet, and a monumental 8.62 tons displacement :heh: bigger is usually better :thumbs_up_1: don't know if my wife would still be my wife if I even said anything about that!!!

That would make a model some 46ft long at 1:24 scale. I doubt my TID 164 would be able to tow it!

Tiny

I'm reminded of the bloke who built a 1/20 scale [i]Graf Spee[/i] that he could drive from within the boat itself! If you're going as big as 1/36 scale on your planned (anticipated?) battleship, I say go whole hog and make it in an even bigger scale so you can do the same thing! One of my life's ambitions is to build (or at least [i]help[/i] to build) a 1/32 or 1/24 scale (possibly 1/18 scale) USS [i]Enterprise[/i] CV-6, complete with air wing.

[quote="NelstoneB"]I would add support bearings about halfway down the exposed shafts, right about where they pass through a frame. Good work on the strut bearings!

Nelson[/quote]

G'day Nelson,
Thanks for your kind words.
I am in two minds about that.... I was looking to mount a bush on each side on that frame where you see the shafts protruding through and about the middle between the frames where the shafts end then they run into the "gearbox", or, just run directly into the gearbox and have it closer to the bush running through the hull (this is space dependant). Of course, will have to look at the motor situation and may eventually go with 2 motors instead of just the one, just smaller ones and get them nice and close to the bush and run a couple of universals so I can level the motors a bit. Weight is my enemy and I just have to look at every gram I build into her.
Any thoughts?
Regards,
Gav

I would add support bearings about halfway down the exposed shafts, right about where they pass through a frame. Good work on the strut bearings!

Nelson

Hey all,
Had the opportunity to use a mates lathe yesterday and made up the prop shafts and the bearings, then made up the supports and soldered them together today. I have taken some pics and in the pics you will see the black tape holding it in position. :smallsmile: It will be removed.
There is more work to do on the supports as these are just filed, not sanded.
[attachment=4]tn_PICT2052.JPG[/attachment] [attachment=3]tn_PICT2053.JPG[/attachment] [attachment=2]tn_PICT2055.JPG[/attachment] [attachment=1]tn_PICT2056.JPG[/attachment] [attachment=0]tn_PICT2058.JPG[/attachment]
The props were purchased from Raboesch via a local supplier.
Will be making the rudders soon too.
I will be plating the hull with aluminium before this lot gets attached permanently.

G'day Sean,
Oh so true. That is the best thing about a site like this where the people giving the advice are truly qualified to do so...
The Steel is a good medium and I have a fair bit of it, so I will persevere.
Funny you should mention the battleship model of the future. I do have a delusion of grandeur there and will be building a behemoth. I have started on the 3 engines for it, all three are V twins and have a bore of 15mm. They will run on compressed air. She will be at 1:36, so a monster, but all I learn on the Mitscher will be applied to the "Monster" :thumbs_up_1:
I have a very understanding wife and two excited boys... This model is for the older son, he is 6 at the moment and I hope to have it sailing for him before he is 8. The younger fella, well, I am building a paddle wheeler for him... after all those, I may get a crack at the big one. At least after following advice from the guys in the earlier posts, I have been able to plan quite well for the big one and already know that in the water, she will be a metric ton. So I can use materials that will make her heavy.

Good morning Russ,
Thanks for your kind words. :big_grin:
Had to abandon the use of the motors for this model, still have them and will finish for another project (paddle wheeler) but for this model, the weight of the motor and the air bottle for the compressed air would sink her. :doh_1: I didn't do proper due diligence before I started the build. Nothing like declaring to the World and then having to change stride mid build... but the balsa on the steel frame seems to work well. In the frames in the pic you may notice the bulkhead has a cap welded onto it to give a broad face (that I was going to solder to), what I did instead id glue the balsa to the inside of the cap to bridge the gap using 1mm balsa, then, as the caps are made with 1.5mm steel (another error of judgment) I then glued in the 1.5mm thick panel to finish flush with the steel. Over this I intend to use .4mm thick aluminium shim. There are models on the site that have been finished in this way and I personally reckon it adds something that paint over balsa just can't match.
I have used a polyurethane glue to stick the balsa to the steel, it is messy, but just won't let go. I will be putting a coat of resin over the balsa (inside and outside) to protect the timber, and then use contact adhesive to glue the shim on. I am adding weight to the hull like a drunken sailor, but hope I will have enough of a weight margin to do justice to the superstructure. Hope as the build continues I won't need to make it un underwater scene...

Blimey, yeah that would be a nasty surprise had you committed to a full steel hull! Still, good to see you back at it after such a long time!

Maybe steel would still work for whichever battleship you decide to build (as long as it's HMS [i]Nelson[/i] or [i]Rodney[/i])?