The Ship Model Forum

Vlad wrote:I ran into the "dark paint looks light in historical pictures" when matching RN WWI colours. My basic conclusion is that the photography can't be trusted for absolute shade values. What I can confirm though is in pictures with USN ships and RN ships together e.g. BatDiv 9 in 1917 the US ships come out darker than their RN counterparts. I'm no USN expert though so make of that what you will.

How the photograph was exposed, the quality of lighting and how it was printed, would affect the appearance. Photos can never be used for absolute shade values. It gets worst with color photography.

Vlad wrote:I ran into the "dark paint looks light in historical pictures" when matching RN WWI colours. My basic conclusion is that the photography can't be trusted for absolute shade values. What I can confirm though is in pictures with USN ships and RN ships together e.g. BatDiv 9 in 1917 the US ships come out darker than their RN counterparts. I'm no USN expert though so make of that what you will.

I got into the Australian War Memorial's restoration area back in 2001 and saw actual paint chips from HMAS Sydney as at the time of meeting Emden. She was a dark grey at that time but the next colour painted circa 1915 is a light grey closer to the post WW1 S&S AP507C than a medium grey.

I ran into the "dark paint looks light in historical pictures" when matching RN WWI colours. My basic conclusion is that the photography can't be trusted for absolute shade values. What I can confirm though is in pictures with USN ships and RN ships together e.g. BatDiv 9 in 1917 the US ships come out darker than their RN counterparts. I'm no USN expert though so make of that what you will.

Thanks Tracy, I�m well out of my comfort zone with both WW1 and USN. I managed to get the slate grey and have compared it via the Mk 1 eyeball in sun and shade to some standard I have. It is between BS381C 640 Extra dark Sea Grey and 671 Middle Graphite by the standards colour chips. More 670 than 640. It is very close to both BS4800 00A13 and AS2700 N65 Graphite Grey.

After all that, he has decided to build as at 1941. I think the thought of those original lattice masts might be one reason. He won�t say what he is building but as he is now talking 1941 and may be Pearl Harbor, I�m guessing Arizona. In which case, I�m simply going to ask him if he wants a very dark grey or medium blue grey model and let him go from there. The S&S paint chips show 5-D as darker than the slate grey and, from I have started to read this morning, her colours on that day are still under debate. Thanks for your help though.

BTW, his 1/72 fleet includes Bismarck, Resolution and Malaya.

508medway wrote:Slightly confused though as it looks like a very dark grey but the photos of the time show the USN in lighter colours or is it a case of the film used etc.?

WWI really isn't my area of specialty, but those photos are all before the US entered into the war. My understanding is that War Color was used when ships were expected to be in battle/when wars started. That said, looking for WWI specific photos I'm not finding any that look they're obviously in that dark slate color. What they would have been in if not in slate, I don't know.

Tracy White wrote:It was sold under the designation US 37 as Slate / War Color. I don't have any mixing formula for it.

Thanks, I've actually found it online in stock in a shop in Oz. and ordered it

Slightly confused though as it looks like a very dark grey but the photos of the time show the USN in lighter colours or is it a case of the film used etc.?

It was sold under the designation US 37 as Slate / War Color. I don't have any mixing formula for it.

Tracy White wrote:War time saw ships painted in a slate gray known as "War Color." This dated to around 1902 if memory serves. Due to the drawdown in funds following the armistice, the Navy wasn't able to ditch stocks of War Color and some ships show up in this color into the mid 1920s.

Thanks Tracy,

Is there a formula for that like the RN and do you know if any of WEM's WW1 greys happen to match it?

If I can't mix it for the guy, may be I can get it colour matched to the WEM paint.

War time saw ships painted in a slate gray known as "War Color." This dated to around 1902 if memory serves. Due to the drawdown in funds following the armistice, the Navy wasn't able to ditch stocks of War Color and some ships show up in this color into the mid 1920s.

508medway wrote:Did the USN issue a mixing formula the way the RN did? The reason I ask that is because the model in question will be 1/72 and humbrol sized tinlets just do not contain enough paint.

According to documentation that Ron Smith found, yes. The Colourcoats range lists their WW1 paints as RN/USN.

Navy Gray #5 was not used during WW1.

I�m trying to find out what were the weatherworks and deck and turret top colours for USN battleships post 1915. I�m assuming when they entered the war the timber decks stayed their natural colour albeit may be not as clean as peacetime but they would have had steel decks too.

Alan Raven has a comment re "from 1919" in his articles but does this mean that Navy Gray #5 was in use from 1915?

The question of warship colour was left in abeyance until 1915 when the Bureau of Construction and Repair began experiments as to the best colour for wartime. These tests resulted in the adoption of a new grey colour, one that was lighter, and this became the standard light grey from 1919 to 1941. The new light grey, (known during the inter-war period as Standard Navy Grey #5).

Did the USN issue a mixing formula the way the RN did? The reason I ask that is because the model in question will be 1/72 and humbrol sized tinlets just do not contain enough paint.