The Ship Model Forum

Timmy C wrote:Plastic cement, like Testors (which comes in both the old-school orange tube gel, and a much more runny black squeeze bottle or purple glass bottle) or Tamiya, works by melting the plastic along the joint and having them weld together at the molecular level. If done properly, this bond is much more reliable and long-lasting than one done by applying superglue (CA), which works simply through mechanical bonds that take advantage of minute crevasses between the parts' surfaces.

The advantage of CA is that it has a strong bond and works quickly, allowing you to glue together parts of different material composition. However, it is brittle and may crack/come apart if subject to expansion/contraction due to temperature changes.

White glue, or PVA, has a longer drying time. It's not as strong as CA, but is more tolerant to temperature changes.

If I'm gluing plastic to plastic, I use plastic cement. If gluing non-plastic materials, I use CA and/or white glue. If there is a large surface area involved, I put CA on one side and white glue on the other to provide, I hope, the best of both their characteristics: strength and tolerance to expansion/contraction.

Thanks Timmy.... It's somewhat comforting to know that one of the 'tools' from my past is still usable! I still remember how to use Testors!

What have I gotten myself in to? I'm starting to think I need to go down to the local HL and pick up a cheapie kit just to practice on before I start on a GOOD one.....

Thanks for the feedback..... I'm soaking it in slowly. Looks like this might be a bit more of a learning curve than I anticipated...

The good news is.....at least this isn't my first 'rodeo'......some of my prior experience will make it less painful!

MareNostrum, its called "Debonder", and I wouldn't be without it! If you are going to work with CA, sooner or later it will come in handy for debonding digits.
My work bench features a variety of glues, cements, etc.. Practically something for all occasions. Sometimes I find, like Timmy C, that a combination works well. For instance, when I'm securing a deck to a hull, or two hull parts to one another, I kind of "spot weld" with CA at intervals. Once that has set and the pieces are firmly affixed, I go back with cement Tamiya Cement or Tenarex for example, and run a nice bead all along the joint.
Also, with CA you need to remember that it has very poor shear strength, that is, side to side movement strength. I think Timmy's idea of, if the joint is such that you can, like maybe railing, using CA on one side and PVA on the other. That said, I bet I've seen a dozen different methods for attaching PE railing, some calling for CA, some for PVA. I like the idea of using both since you have two easily accessible sides to the joint.
As far as the different viscosities of CA glue, you have thin, Gap Filling (medium), and thick. I usually use Gap filling, because it gives me more working time and I feel like, at least, a little more strength than the thin. Thin is good when you want to take a teflon applicator and run a bead down a joint, like railing, and let the capillary action draw the glue into the joint. Dries wicked quick though, 2 to 3 seconds. I really don't use the thick very often unless I feel like I'm going to need an exceptional amount of working time, then I use it very sparingly.
Finally, don't forget about zip kicker. Put a little on a small brush and either touch it to the joint just after you hit it with the CA, or brush the CA on one piece, the zip kicker on the other. Instantly, and I do mean instantly, sets up CA of any thickness. But be careful, once its on there you only get one shot!

Getting complicated enough yet?

Oh, and one more thing I've learned. Don't fool with X-Acto knives. Go on E-Bay and get yourself a couple of scalpel handles and some packs of different shaped scalpel blades. A lot sharper, cheap and work like a champ.

Bob

Plastic cement, like Testors (which comes in both the old-school orange tube gel, and a much more runny black squeeze bottle or purple glass bottle) or Tamiya, works by melting the plastic along the joint and having them weld together at the molecular level. If done properly, this bond is much more reliable and long-lasting than one done by applying superglue (CA), which works simply through mechanical bonds that take advantage of minute crevasses between the parts' surfaces.

The advantage of CA is that it has a strong bond and works quickly, allowing you to glue together parts of different material composition. However, it is brittle and may crack/come apart if subject to expansion/contraction due to temperature changes.

White glue, or PVA, has a longer drying time. It's not as strong as CA, but is more tolerant to temperature changes.

If I'm gluing plastic to plastic, I use plastic cement. If gluing non-plastic materials, I use CA and/or white glue. If there is a large surface area involved, I put CA on one side and white glue on the other to provide, I hope, the best of both their characteristics: strength and tolerance to expansion/contraction.

Santacarl wrote:I am amazed at the variety of glues....used to be the only thing I could find was Testors....

I guess I'm very much old school, Testor's still my preferred glue, I guess over the years I've learned to work with it quite comfortably. That being said, Bob's recommendations are worth at least trying out. One thing to bear in mind with CA glue, it comes in different viscosities (to add to your confusion), appropriate for particular circumstances. Same applies to conventional liquid glue (including Testor's), there are occasions when it works best, or easiest. Bottom line- you probably won't be working with just one type of glue throughout a project, get different types and experiment to learn which works best for you in a particular instance. Uh, also, get the stuff that unsticks your fingers when stuck with CA, can't remember what it is, but it's nice to have close by...

Carl, I know exactly what you mean. I came back to the hobby about six years ago after about a 40 year hiatus. I loved building model warships and warplanes as a kid and built them just as fast as I could talk my folks into buying them for me. In those innocent days they were lucky to see a drop of paint! Build it, put on the decals and go fight World War II. When I started modeling again, thanks primarily to stumbling onto this site one day surfing the web, I was simply amazed at how much had changed and how far things had come. The cost of the kits alone was a major shock to me, let alone PE and all the other after market goodies we have now. And, the quality of many of the kits, though some I remember building when I was a kid.

In any event, welcome home! And, you have come to a great place if your interest is in model ships. There is a wealth of knowledge about everything from ship histories to tricks and techniques of building, painting and rigging a ship here, and these folks will gladly share their wisdom with you. Its fair to say that they will fall over each other to be welcoming and helpful.

Be sure and go over to the main forum and introduce yourself. You'll get a lot of hearty and sincere welcomes. And by all means, as you start to build and get some kits under your belt, be sure to show us some of your work. Don't worry if it isn't the museum quality work that some of these guys produce. Very few build to that standard and I'm certainly not one of them.

If you ever get frustrated and need to vent, or have a question or want some advice you don't for some reason want to post on the board, feel free to PM me. I'll always be ready to help as best I can.

Bob

robertmelvin wrote:Personally, and I'm far from the expert some of these guys are, I almost exclusively use CA for attaching plastic to plastic. For PE to plastic, I use CA for the larger pieces, and PVA for the smaller pieces, like hatches. For attaching one piece of PE to another, or say closing up a piece of PE that has to be folded square, I use CA.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Thanks for the insight Bob.....

I feel like I'm starting all over again.....there have been some changes!

Personally, and I'm far from the expert some of these guys are, I almost exclusively use CA for attaching plastic to plastic. For PE to plastic, I use CA for the larger pieces, and PVA for the smaller pieces, like hatches. For attaching one piece of PE to another, or say closing up a piece of PE that has to be folded square, I use CA.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Just getting back into modeling....I am amazed at the variety of glues....used to be the only thing I could find was Testors....

So.....does anyone have a suggestion for glue on plastic models?

Thanks

SC