The Ship Model Forum

Two main tools: Rhino to model 3D and CorelDraw for color sticker.
Btw. metal model soon to be available from [url=http://spidernavy-blog.de/]Spider Navy[/url].

[url=https://www.1250ships.com/]1250 Ships[/url] carry them in the States.�

Darius

Glorious. What program do you use to build this?

Thank you Tracy. Interesting alas not conclusive. In such case where blue hasn't been authoritatively dismissed I went ahead and took my first stub at the deck sticker. Model is in 1250 and rest of the ship still without camouflage so colors play differently against each other but at least I can test with printers how it looks on vinyl.�

Darius� �

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Unfortunately carrier deck paint is not anything I've had a lot of hits for. I would note that in 1941 [url=http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/1941DecemberNorfolkFlightDeckPaint.html]there was a deck stain that matched 20-B[/url] and that in the photo Darius originally posted Long Island is coming out of overhaul, so the deck stain would be fresh and with little fading. I don't know that Norfolk #L-8l-3M or a derivative were still in use in any capacity at the beginning of 1944 but if it was that could explain why the deck numbers and lines look about the same tone as the 20-B on the fantail.

For what it's worth, I had hoped to hit more deck camouflage documentation on my "next" archives trip that was cancelled by the Covid pandemic shutdown in April of 2020. No idea when they are re-opening at this point.

Great stuff! Thanks for sharing.

Whilst you're free to use whatever colours you please, the color photo of Charger shows black numerals on the deck. This was standard in the fleet in the time frame of the above photo. Only later in '45 did they use white and eventually yellow numerals. Best person to check with would be Tracy White.

Charybdis,

did you check link I gave in my post above. Or go visit Navy Source photos for CHARGER. Two color photos showing blue numerals ( NS0303015 and NS0303015 ). At least that's what I see. Coloring could be off....

My reasoning is based on contrast between gray deck color, number and dashed lines against black camo pattern. Those vertical surfaces are definitely different. Unless there is concrete proof numbers were never painted blue I'm taking my chances...:)
I've got another shot, same date.

Darius�

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One more thing, I don't know if the color photo of Charger has 20-B Deck Blue numbers. If you look at the 20-B Deck Blue on the catwalks, the paint appears to have a more bluish hue. The flight deck numbers may be flat black and just faded. The deck is definitely the earlier lighter stain though.

You're welcome. Other than Floating Drydock's Camo 2 on Fleet Carriers, I have not read anything else concerning 20B Deck Blue flight deck numbers. It might be worth your time to post the photo of CVE-1 and link to Charger in the "Camouflage and Coatings" section and see if more info turns up. There is a lot of new info on USN camo being revealed these days from original research and most of my books and info are dated. Good luck!

Ed R

Great detail shot!

It looks like the arresting wires and barriers have been removed.

I've never seen flight deck numerals in Deck Blue. According to Alan Raven, large black numerals were added to flight decks late '43. The picture was taken Feb '44 which by then had seen:

"...the introduction of a new flight deck stain for carriers called #21 Flight Deck stain which began to be employed on the ESSEX class as they came into service in 1943. This color when newly applied exactly matched that of 5-0 Ocean Gray. This new stain was also used on the flight decks of INDEPENDENCE class CVLs and CVE classes in 1943 and into 1944."

So I think the flight deck would be #21 Flight Deck Stain (Ocean Grey) with black numerals. The dashed landing line looks the same as the numerals so I'd go with that.

Thanks for sharing. Do you have any other detail shots of this ship?

Thank you Ed. Very helpful. Based on the gray color intensity I suspect the first option is more feasible. Deck blue for number and dashes. In fact I went trough other photos of CVEs I have and found this [url=https://www.navsource.org/archives/03/0303017.jpg]one[/url] ( Charger from April 1944 ), also available on NavSource which clearly shows similar colors, except dashes are white. I think, this is what I'm going with.

My guess would be 20-B Deck Blue for flight deck numbers and dash lines with flight deck stained No. 21 Flight Deck Stain. This stain is the earlier lighter version (close to 5-O Ocean Gray) before the darker No. 21 Flight Deck Stain (revised) was introduced in mid-1944 that matched 20-B Deck Blue. I say deck blue because of the contrast with the black camo on the hull. It may just be the lighting or the film. In Camo 2 Fleet Carriers by the Floating Drydock on pg. 1, it reports that deck blue was used for flight deck numbers early on but not much more info is given.

The second possibility is that the numbers and dashes are all flat black as on Bennington CV-20 with either flight deck stain 21 or the later darker stain. At NAVSOURCE, if you look at photos of Bennington (NS022030, NS022030a, NS022031) you'll see this. Curiously, Camo 2 states that white dashes and possibly yellow were used on late war carriers and black dashes are not mentioned at all, even though there is a photo of Bennington with black dashes on pages 47 and 44 (and there may be others just haven't looked too closely).

I'm certainly not a researcher, so others may more accurate info than this.

Ed R

Can you guys help identifying flight deck colors on this photo of CVE-1 from Feb. 1944. I'm guessing the overall is 20-B...? But what about her number and dashed lines. They look dark so definitely not white or possibly yellow...?

Many thanks

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Well, here it goes. This is my 1/1250 scale interpretation of CVE-1 as build. Three quick and dirty renderings. For manufacturing reasons most features had to be beefed up but hopefully this won�t obscure overall appearances. Please ignore mast and flagstaff colors. It�s there to indicate different manufacturing material.

I�d like to believe there is some resemblance to the real thing but wouldn�t be surprised if others found many faults with it. When working on her bridge I was surprised how large those side platforms turned out to be. Assuming my way of reasoning is correct of course. It made me reassess my initial comment about .50 cal machine gun placements. There is enough room for such weapon so back we go to one machine gun on each corner of the flight deck... :smallsmile:
Although just sitting there without any additional splinter shielding makes it look bit unusual. I might add something there later on based on pure speculation...

Darius

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Darius,

Good luck with your project. Sorry I could not have provided something definitive. The overhead photo dated July 1941 on Navsource may be useful if a higher resolution version is available. Also, the ONI side profile drawing dated June 1942 is interesting as it looks like the drawing is from an earlier time (with light AA at end flight deck??). The only other suggestion is to see if there are any clues from her sister ship HMS Archer.

Ed

Thank you Ed. Appreciate your comments.
I hope you are correct because this is pretty much the number of guns I intend to go ahead with.... :smallsmile:
Their placement is still a mystery to me. One on each corner of the flight deck would makes sense except those forward platforms, even though reasonable large, were already carrying 24� ( most likely ) or even 36� searchlights. So placing machine gun in near proximity seems unlikely.
I see their location more likely further back towards amidships and the other pair probably on side platforms at the very end of her flight deck.
Still why do I feel like I�m creating my own facts... :smallsmile:

Darius

According to US Aircraft Carrier Design and Development, Long Island has 4 X .50 cal machine guns as built. Looking at the photos from this time, possibly a gun tub at the forward corners of the flight deck but I can't see the machine gun because of the resolution of the photo. This may account for two of the four but just guessing.

Ed R

Hey guys,
I�m trying to figure out CVE-1 light AA armament right after her completion. That�s the first few months with original short landing deck. Did she carry anything else besides 2 x 3� 50 cal guns on the forecastle...? Hardly any good photos of her from this time period exist. Three, poor ones that I saw, I can�t really tell, whether the thing I see is couple of sailors chatting or in fact .50 cal machine gun.
Thanks

Darius