The Ship Model Forum

carr wrote:
If a man says something and there's not a woman around to hear it, is he still wrong?

carr wrote:After a little digging, I agree with Busto that the antenna is a HF communications Discone-cage antenna, commonly mounted on the bow of ships in order to avoid interference from surrounding equipment and structures. ...
I didn't find any description of what type of communications it was used for so I'd go with Busto's explanation. He's invariably correct.

carr wrote:For Hawaii, that large antenna on the bow (I should know the name of it but I'm drawing a blank - sorry) is shown on the profile but not the overhead view. The profile shows it just about smack on top of the anchor handling gear. Maybe a conflict there? Plus, it looks like it would cut a major chunk of the field of fire of the 40mm that's shown immediately aft of it.

SumGui wrote:

Busto963 wrote:MK 13 GMLS - would this weapon be a "drop in replacement" for forward 5" 38s (weight and size)?

According to reference, the Mk22 (inner ring only version of the Mk 13 - 16 rounds) would be a 'drop-in' replacement for the Mk42 5"/54"

"Tartar Launching System Mk 22 was developed for use on small ships where space and weight allowances were too limited to permit the use of the Mk 11 or Mk 13 system. The Mk 22 system was designed to replace a 5"/54 gun mount. A single ready-service ring is located directly below the launcher with the missiles stowed vertically."

Page 144:
http://www.okieboat.com/GMM/GMM%203%20a ... ystems.pdf

This does not say you could not replace a Mk 42 5"/54 with a Mk 13, after all, that is essentially what was done between the Forrest Sherman and Adams class (with some additional growth on the Adams class), just that the Mk 22 was an option if the vessel could not take the higher Mk 11/13 weight. So I read this as you probably could always trade a Mk 42 5"/54 for a Mk 22, and sometimes you may be able to get a Mk 11/13 if you could take the extra weight.

Other references I have indicate the Mk 42 5"/54 was intended to be a near-direct replacement of the twin 5"/38 mount, however, as in all things, it came in in excess of that target weight.

BUT (confused yet?), the Brooke class DEG/FFG was the Garcia class FF with the amidships 5"/38 SINGLE replaced with the Mk 22. So...

Essentially there is real-world evidence to the Mk 13 being a close swap for the Mk 42 5"/54, and there is real world evidence for the Mk 22 being able to be a near direct swap for a 5"/38 single, and there is real world documentation for the Mk 22 intending to be a swap out for a 5"/54....so there you have the confusing information.

I do believe is is reasonable in a WHIF to replace a twin 5"/38 with Mk 22 without much modification (say, replace the B mount on a Gearing FRAM - but note the ship still needs the other components such as computers, 3D radar and FC radar) - not with Mk 13 unless you found more weight somewhere - the second ring of the Mk 13 would certainly make it overweight.

some other references:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-54_mk42.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-38_mk12.htm

Busto963 wrote:MK 13 GMLS - would this weapon be a "drop in replacement" for forward 5" 38s (weight and size)?

Cliffy B wrote:Alrighty folks, here's Hawaii!

Weapons:
6 Mk-8 12"/50 BLRs in 2 triple turrets (1,000 rounds) with 1 Mk-34 Director with Mk-13 Radar.
6 Mk-32 5"/38s in 3 twin mounts (2,500 rounds) with 1 Mk-37 Director with Mk-25 Radar.
12 Mk-33 3"/50 automatics in 6 twin mounts (9,000 rounds) with 2 Mk-56 directors.
2 Regulus II Surface to Surface missiles launchers with 8 missiles.
2 Mk-13 Mod 0 GMLS (80 Tartars) with 4 SPG-51s.
1 Mk-16 ASROC "Pepper box" (24 ASROCs).
6 Mk-32 SVTTs in 2 triple mounts (18 torpedoes).
2 SH-2 LAMPS I ASW/Utility Helos in below deck hangar in stern.