The Ship Model Forum

You might contact Simon Percival at Micro Master about your 1918 turrets. He very graciously produced a set to accommodate my o/c fixation on Dreadnought during her trials. You'll be blown away as well by the detail on his 12 pounders. An errant seagull told me funnels are in the works, so he seems to have a soft spot for this ship (and we who labor over hyper accurate models of her).

Interestingly, while obsessing about the deflection scales and looking at the photographs of turrets of the period I realised that the turrets of the Trumpeter kit do not include the rangefinders that had been fitted to the rear of all five turrets by June 1915. These are shown in the side elevations in AOTS (and are visible in several photos) but there is no detailed drawing as far as I can see. From the photos the rangefinders appear to extend across approximately two thirds of the flat section of the turret and offset to the left-hand side. This was presumably so as not to interfere with the hatch at the right rear of the turret roof. Am constructing with some leftover sprue.

Thanks for your comments. There are six turrets with the kit so will try both a dark grey and a black and see how they look.

The photo of Australia in Jabberwock's 6 July 2016 post is one of the photos I referred to and, like the photo of Agincourt, looks pretty dark if not actually black.

In very belated answer to Jabberwock's question the numbers are 10 degree increments from the centre of the barbette, with 0 at the front of A turret (which normally faced forward when not in use) and 180 at the rear and the reverse on Y turret (which faced aft when not in use - 180 at rear of turret and 0 between guns). This enabled observers in vessels ahead and astern to ascertain immediately the bearing on which the guns were firing so the other ships could fire on same bearing. The range clocks worked on a similar principle. As the photo of Agincourt showed where there were superimposed mountings the deflection scales were painted on the higher turret, presumably because easier to see from the accompanying ships.

I don't think you could go wrong with an off-black or very dark grey. Here's Agincourt in 1917-1918(ish), according to the caption (I don't recall where I downloaded this picture from).

Akula,

I seem to recall that there is a model of an unidentified capital ship with one of its gun-house shields painted with a deflection scale on it. The impression remaining is that the base colour was black: it would certainly have made the scale and numbers stand out better than they would have done if the base colour had been a grey. However, someone else may know better.

81542

Have registered but appear to have mistakenly posted as a guest.

Cheers

Grant

This is my first post. I am currently building a Trumpeter Dreadnought 1918 kit.

For me this is the ship's final combat configuration following her July-August 1917 refit and after she had rejoined the 4BS at Scapa Flow from May 1918.

So far I have identified a number of issues with the kit as compared with AOTS Dreadnought including suggested colour scheme (Tamiya XF 54 too dark so using XF 50), too many 12lb on flying deck and signal deck(only 18 by 1918), only one 6 lb HA AA supplied instead of two 3 " AA, too many 36" searchlights on the signal/flying decks and no provision for black on the tripod mast from mid fore funnel up (and the foremast has not been reduced in height, retaining only the upper yards).

More fundamentally appearance wise is that there is no provision for deflection scales on A and Y turrets. That they were present on Dreadnought from late 1917 is clear from photos including those in the AOTS. I think I have worked out the graduations and how to mark them accurately on the turrets (although the smallness of the numbers will defeat me). What I cannot identify however is the colour of A and Y turrets. Can anyone help? On Dreadnought and the other British capital ships of the period the turret colour is clearly darker than the ship itself but is it dark grey or black? Instinct says it would have been dark grey but the two photographs of HMAS Australia in Roberts British Battlecruisers 1905-1920 at pp 85 and 118 suggest it could have been black

Any thoughts? and any other suggested mods to the 1918 version gratefully accepted.

Cheers

Grant

I think the kit does depict her original configuration, not 100% sure though. And no I don't have that book, must keep an eye out for a copy. Ah I have plenty on the to-do list before I get to Dreadnought so no major panic.

Thanks dick. I understand. It is not my primary era of interest either, hence the questions.

I recently (impulse?) bought a Revell / Zvezda tooling 1/350 Dreadnought kit and a detail set and intend to depict her as she appeared in 1906/07.

Still, knowing that the lower hull colour was red is a big help though.

Mr. Church wrote:... So my question is what would her steel deck colours have been as completed in 1906/07?

Sorry, this aspect of pre WW1 goings on is not something I have researched.

Mr. Church wrote:I assume her vertical sides at that time were in August 1902 - November 1914 Dark grey:
https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/coll ... k-grey-507

I would guess so, but sometime pre WW1 an even darker grey ("507A") was introduced. I have not yet pinned down the exact year it came in but I don't think it was earlier than 1907. It was certainly in use by 1913. Again, not having researched this era properly I would not like to say whether or not this 507A was used for ships' vertical surfaces or for some other purpose.

Mr. Church wrote:Was there a corresponding deck grey colour that was darker than this again? Or have you any general thoughts or comments on RN Steel Deck colours of this era? Thanks.

Sorry, as above I'm afraid! Hopefully someone with more knowledge of this era will chip in.

dick wrote:The RN's various anti fouling colours go back to pre-WW1. However in the case of Dreadnought I know from the records that her bottom was coated in a red anti fouling paint during 1912, 1913 and 1914. Although the colour is not recorded for her earlier coatings, exactly the same type of paint from the same maker was used. I therefore strongly suspect that her bottom was red from 1906 onwards.

Thanks for sharing dick, much appreciated as always.

You are likely the best man to ask... So my question is what would her steel deck colours have been as completed in 1906/07?

I assume her vertical sides at that time were in August 1902 - November 1914 Dark grey:
https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/coll ... k-grey-507

Was there a corresponding deck grey colour that was darker than this again? Or have you any general thoughts or comments on RN Steel Deck colours of this era? Thanks.

Thanks,

kurt wrote:Does the red or gray anti fouling color debate apply to 1907, or does that begin with the 1920s RN? ...

The RN's various anti fouling colours go back to pre-WW1. However in the case of Dreadnought I know from the records that her bottom was coated in a red anti fouling paint during 1912, 1913 and 1914. Although the colour is not recorded for her earlier coatings, exactly the same type of paint from the same maker was used. I therefore strongly suspect that her bottom was red from 1906 onwards.

Does the red or gray anti fouling color debate apply to 1907, or does that begin with the 1920s RN? Also, as I interpret the Dreadnought AOTS book corticene was not used on any external decking, the Admiral�s walk and superstructure upper decks were just painted steel. Am I correct in thinking this? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Kurt

Would this be the right thread to talk about Bellerophon and St Vincent class battleships? Or should they get their own CASF thread?

Suvoroff wrote:Does anyone have a feel for how extensive a conversion would be necessary for a Bellerophon class battleship? Historic as the Dreadnought is, the two heavy masts of the Bellerophon class made a much more impressive profile.

The dimensions are almost identical.

You would need to move the foremast forward of the fore funnel and add a second mast forward of the after funnel.

You would need to produce 4" guns instead of the 12 pounders.

Yours,
James D. Gray

Dear Boys & Girls, have any documented conversions to a Bellerophon class ship in 1/350 surfaced in the interim?

Terry (Caravellarella)

So faced with a choice between the Trumpeter and Zvedza �Dreadnought� kits in 1:350, and assuming one were going to use aftermarket detail sets such as the Pontos deck and White Ensign PE, which would be the better choice? My modeling skills are fair to middling (I mostly do WWI aeroplanes, scratchbuilding about 20% of the detail stuff) and I�d probably be removing a lot of the kit details anyway.

Enquiring minds want to know.

Dave

Okay, but which ones are the 12-pdrs and which are the 6-pdrs? Assuming equal distribution, would the 6-pdrs be the centre two, or the outer two? Would also appreciate any source you may have on the matter.

I'm building the Trumpeter 1/700 Dreadnought 1915 and have run into a mild issue: the kit configuration calls for 27 of the 12-pounder guns, but the Master Model brass barrel set only comes with 26. Is there any historical excuse to omit one of the 12-pdrs from the kit while retaining the (presumably accurate) historical appearance of the rest of the kit?


For reference, here are the instructions for the kit showing where they have the 12-pdrs placed: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10316148/70/1

4 on the forecastle
8 on the turrets (A turret not fitted with them)
10 in the main secondary gun deck
2 on the conning tower deck
3 at the stern

Edit: as it turns out, John Roberts in AOTS Dreadnought apparently indicates the two A turret 12-pdrs were moved to the stern quarterdeck, where they were joined by two 6-pdr HA guns. The kit includes one different gun for the quarter deck, presumably one of the 6-pdrs. It seems an alternative for me would be to modify one of the kit's 12-pdrs to resemble the 6-pdr - now if only I knew where exactly it was placed...

Hope someone can help here.

Having viewed a large number of pictures of this iconic warship, I am struggling to find a photo which gives me an idea as to the colour of the blast-bags (bloomers).

I have seen plenty of pics of contemporary ships showing shades at both ends of the spectrum.

Anyone any ideas, white, natural weathered canvas, light grey, medium or dark grey, black? I'm leaning towards natural canvas.

Also seeking details of the declination scales painted on 'A' and 'X' turrets in 1917. I have a very indistinct photograph. I 'think' that the numbers went from '1' at the front to '16' at the rear And a photo of HMAS Australia Would they have been similar?

Thanks for your time.

Cheers, Jabb.