The Ship Model Forum

by **marijn van gils** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:30 am

ModelMonkey wrote:You are correct that the horizontal bands represent a plating strap bolted to the exterior of butt-joined plates above and below each of them reinforcing the joint. It seems a bit heavy in the renderings but the straps are designed to print 0.01mm thick in 1/350 scale and 0.005mm thick in 1/700 scale. For those that find this too thick to their liking, they can be gently sanded down without difficulty. It is my opinion that this feature, appearing prominently in many photos, is important in the design.

I think that these thicknesses will appear realistically thick after paint. Also, they should prove resistant to over-use of an air eraser, if the modeler chooses to use one to smooth surfaces before painting.

Regarding the boat platform, a 3D printed platform would further increase the cost of an already very expensive product, and could be easily replicated by the modeler for little or no cost. I am sensitive to the cost of these products simply because expensive products put these products out of the reach of modelers who would enjoy them. Expensive products do not sell, no matter how good the design.

I could design the 20mm Oerlikon AA platform as a separate product for those that want one. Thoughts?

Good news! The 1942 version is nearly done. The modifications from the 1936 design to the 1941 design are based on official "Navy Yard, Pearl Harbor General Arrangement" plans dated 15 April 1942 found in Steve Wiper's "Warship Pictorial #33, USS Lexington CV-2" on pages 36-37 (highly recommended reference), and photos of the ship taken at Pearl when the mods were made. They clearly show the mods made to the aft 8" fire control station platforms to include clipping rooms and 20mm Oerlikon positions. The clipping rooms in the 3D design feature open scuttles in locations indicated by the NYPH drawings. These drawings also include the footprint and shape of the 1.1" Chicago Piano position splinter shielding, a product I already offer separately. No plastic kit manufacturer captures the curved shape of the shielding as shown in the NYPH drawings, a discussion made in the CASF CV-2 thread. So I made a 3D design as an alternative for those modelers who prefer them curved instead of the rectangular kit parts.

I forgot to answer to this one� Sorry about that!

The finished design looks gray Steve!!! Congrats! I concur with your ideas above. The lines will probably be perfect, and if not can be removed very easily indeed.
As for the 20mm platform: it is easy to scratchbuilt, so isn't necessary. But since it is an integral part of the funnel part of the island, if I would be someone who doesn't like scratch building, I would rather have it included (and pay a bit extra) than have to buy a separate piece. Maybe it can be an optional design? One cheaper without AA platform, one more expensive with?
For anyone scratchbuilding it, be aware though that it sits slightly lower than the platforms to the front and rear of the funnel (unlike the Trumpeter kit, which puts it at the same level). One of those things I only found out too late, so I also didn't do this correctly on my own build�

Cheers,

Marijn

by **ModelMonkey** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:40 pm

1941-March, 1942 ("tall stack" - large multiple .50 cal. AA platform installed with "dumbwaiter" ammunition hoists, Secondary Conn/Aviation Control has been replaced with a CXAM-1 radar control booth with searchlight platform, port and starboard catwalks have been removed, more doors have been cut into the 01 level, a 1.1" "Chicago Piano" tub is now in position, the salute gun platform has been removed from the top of the freshwater tank).

Many thanks to Dick J for providing reference photos for the design.

by **ModelMonkey** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:23 am

Four different funnel designs for USS Saratoga CV-3 are now available depicting the funnel during four distinct periods. Here are the designs with notes regarding major feature changes:

1928-1940 ("tall stack" as commissioned through the pre-war years):

May, 1942-1943 ("short stack" - funnel cut down and aft 8" fire control station has been entirely replaced with a Mk.37 director platform, radar platform enlarged for SK radar, clipping rooms and aft-end 01-level equipment room added, and two AA director tubs installed):

1944-1945 ("short stack" - Mk.37 director platform and splinter shielding extended aft around the Mk.37 director tower, radar platform pedestal enlarged for the very heavy SM radar):[/b]

by **ModelMonkey** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:46 am

Thanks, Jim!

USS Lexington CV-2 funnel designs are complete. There are four designs, one for each of the following periods:

1928-1935

1936-1940

1941-March, 1942

May 8, 1942 (Battle of the Coral Sea)

by **Jim21680** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:13 pm

Cool! I wasn't sure if a pre-36 Lex funnel would be following the latest releases, but I'm glad to see this.
As soon as I decide which bridge tower I should go with (either the 36-40 Lex, or one of the earlier Sara designs), I'll be ordering soon.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...Thanks Steve

by **ModelMonkey** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:29 pm

For early 30s carrier fans, a design for the funnel of USS Lexington CV-2 as it appeared from 1928-1935 is complete, as is another for USS Saratoga CV-3 as it appeared from 1928-1940. 1/350 is ready now. 1/700 will be ready in the next day or so.

They are not the same. Major differences include:
- different catwalks (Saratoga has catwalks on both sides of the funnel. Lexington just has a starboard side catwalk).
- the height of the starboard side searchlight platforms (Lexington's are higher).

You can find them here among other fine superstructure designs:
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Model_Monkey

by **ModelMonkey** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:36 am

Aop Aur wrote:....One question, though, how do you design the plates, nuts, strips, degaussing cables and portholes on the curved surfaces? 123D wouldn't allow that. Maybe you draw it seperately, move it the right location away from the object and extrude it through the object? Well that is more or less a method for the portholes, but what about, say the two boxes that sit on the roof of your Texas turret?

Great questions. The short answer: with difficulty. The long answer: yes, each feature is designed as its own model then all the models are combined together to make the larger model. This is just like making a real model kit by subassembly.

Regarding the cabling, to do that in 123D Design, the process is a bit complicated and too long to explain here. And it takes a long time to do. For example, including research, it took about a week working full time to design the cabling for Yorktown's island. Another week for Enterprise, and a third week for Hornet. Yep, they are not the same.

PM coming.

by **Aop Aur** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:32 am

ModelMonkey wrote:Thanks, Aop!

To be sure, designing models is difficult, especially complex curves. Most designs take a long time, usually much longer than expected because of some shape issue that comes to light when turning a 2D Navy drawing into a 3D model.

Having said that, those old hand-drawn plans are expertly drawn and the modern day computer confirms their accuracy when lining up drawings found on different sheets like decks and bulkheads. It is amazing what the draftsmen of 100 years ago could accomplish with a pencil and a slide-rule and their wits.

Since you mentioned turrets, an example of their turret drawing work can be seen below. I used hi-res versions of these 1914 drawings, together with some others, to design 3D-printed turrets for USS New York and USS Texas. These drawings clearly show that the shape of the turrets found in plastic kits is very wrong. Below them is the design I made from them of turrets 1, 3 and 5 (turrets 2 and 4 have rangefinders). Notice that the glacis is curved, not flat as depicted in every plastic kit.

Re-scaling poses some 3D challenges, too. Some features have to be thickened to be printable in smaller scales, and can be thinned for larger scales. This takes some time and is why 1/350 and 1/700 are made available on different days.

Well the plans you have certainly represents very accurate details. I guess it is better than my NMM, as it is of course just a never built design. But they nevertheless are enough for 3D designs.

Yes I truly understand the difficulties in designing them, as I have done a couple designs myself. One question, though, how do you design the plates, nuts, strips, degaussing cables and portholes on the curved surfaces? 123D wouldn't allow that. Maybe you draw it seperately, move it the right location away from the object and extrude it through the object? Well that is more or less a method for the portholes, but what about, say the two boxes that sit on the roof of your Texas turret?

Aop.

by **ModelMonkey** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:06 am

Thanks, Aop!

To be sure, designing models is difficult, especially complex curves. Most designs take a long time, usually much longer than expected because of some shape issue that comes to light when turning a 2D Navy drawing into a 3D model.

Having said that, those old hand-drawn plans are expertly drawn and the modern day computer confirms their accuracy when lining up drawings found on different sheets like decks and bulkheads. It is amazing what the draftsmen of 100 years ago could accomplish with a pencil and a slide-rule and their wits.

Since you mentioned turrets, an example of their turret drawing work can be seen below. I used hi-res versions of these 1914 drawings, together with some others, to design 3D-printed turrets for USS New York and USS Texas. These drawings clearly show that the shape of the turrets found in plastic kits is very wrong. Below them is the design I made from them of turrets 1, 3 and 5 (turrets 2 and 4 have rangefinders). Notice that the glacis is curved, not flat as depicted in every plastic kit.

Re-scaling poses some 3D challenges, too. Some features have to be thickened to be printable in smaller scales, and can be thinned for larger scales. This takes some time and is why 1/350 and 1/700 are made available on different days.

by **Aop Aur** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:13 am

Steve, did you have a hard time designing any of the structures or details in your funnel designs? I don't know why, but I had pretty much difficulties designing not so complicated designs like turrets on so forth. I guess you didn't design them: you just 3D scan the real thing and scale them for sale!!

Aop.

by **ModelMonkey** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:14 pm

MartinJQuinn wrote:This will be perfect for my long dormant 1/350 Blue Water Navy Lexington....

Thanks, Martin! Another modeler just bought one for exactly the same purpose, to "bring a BWN Lexington out of ordinary", as he said.

The 1/700 scale 1941-March, 1942 Lex funnel is ready. Fans of the divine scale, you know your Fujimi or Trumpeter kit begs for one. A bridge tower and 8" turrets are available too!

by **MartinJQuinn** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:25 am

This will be perfect for my long dormant 1/350 Blue Water Navy Lexington. I screwed up and over sanded the over pour off the bottom of the funnel

Saving my pennies for Columbia, SC and the IPMS Nationals, but I will be getting one. And the island to go with it.

by **ModelMonkey** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:12 pm

The 1941 - March, 1942 USS Lexington CV-2 funnel design is now ready in 1/350 scale! 1/700 will be ready tomorrow [edit: the 1/700 design is done!]. Get out your Brewster F2A Buffaloes!

This model represents the massive funnel of celebrated aircraft carrier USS Lexington CV-2 as she appeared in 1941 through March, 1942 during which she and her crew participated in an attempted raid on the Japanese base on Jaluit in the Marshall Islands, patrols northeast of Christmas Island, an attempted raid on Rabaul, and a raid on Japanese shipping anchored at Lae and Salamaua.

You can find it here among other quality 1/350 scale superstructures:
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/model_mo ... ctures&s=0

by **ModelMonkey** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:48 pm

The 8 May 1942 Battle of the Coral Sea USS Lexington CV-2 funnel design is now ready in 1/700 scale!

You can find it here among other quality 1/700 scale superstructures:
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/model_mo ... ctures&s=0

by **ModelMonkey** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:54 pm

Alrighty, the 1942 Lexington funnel design is complete, having successfully passed Shapeways' design analysis software. It is ready now in 1/350 and will be in 1/700 scale tomorrow. [edit: 1/700 is ready, too!]

Features:
- fully assembled
- accurately dimensioned from US Navy Booklet of General Plans drawings
- 1942 features designed from official Navy Yard Pearl Harbor "General Arrangement, New Anti-aircraft Battery & Fire Control" drawings dated 15 April 1942
- accurate elliptical shape, not slab-sided a some plastic kits are, and the 01 level is wider aft
- detail shapes and locations confirmed by careful study of photographs of the actual ship during her Pearl Harbor refit and the Batte of the Coral Sea
- open smoke pipes, accurately sized and properly sloped and compartmented, passing all the way through
- raised and angled forward smoke pipe exhaust per photos, not cowled as some kits depict
- open drying room vents just below the funnel cap
- funnel cap roof has the correct complex curve - plastic kit manufacturers get this shape wrong
- funnel cap roof access hatches (three)
- ammunition "dumb-waiter" hoists on the starboard side of the AA platform with delicate guide rails extending to the flight deck level
- access hatches on the roof of the fresh water tank (the boxy structure on the 01 level forward of the stack)
- CXAM-1 radar platform accurately sized and located with structural supports
- accurate splinter shield shapes with ribs properly numbered, sized and located
- 1.1" quadruple "Chicago Piano" tub forward on the 01 level
- 20mm Oerlikon position with splinter shielding on the former 8" Fire Control platform
- 20mm Oerlikon clipping rooms on the former 8" Fire Control platform and on the 01 level aft, accurately sized and located with open A/T doors in the correct locations
- detailed, internal, twin 8" Mount #3 barbette and associated bulkheads with open scuttles which will be visible through:
- open A/T doors, ready for your favorite photoetch
- open portholes (airports) properly sized and located
- delicate exterior electrical cabling, properly positioned and routed
- subtle, raised locators for searchlights, directors and 20mm Oerlikons
- integrated, stowed boat booms (3), starboard side aft
- heavy structural supports included
- light structural supports, railings and ladders omitted, ready for your favorite photoetch

by **ModelMonkey** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:44 am

Thanks so much for your comments, Marijn! Your Lexington diorama has become legendary among ship modelers. I stand in awe.

You are correct that the horizontal bands represent a plating strap bolted to the exterior of butt-joined plates above and below each of them reinforcing the joint. It seems a bit heavy in the renderings but the straps are designed to print 0.01mm thick in 1/350 scale and 0.005mm thick in 1/700 scale. For those that find this too thick to their liking, they can be gently sanded down without difficulty. It is my opinion that this feature, appearing prominently in many photos, is important in the design.

I think that these thicknesses will appear realistically thick after paint. Also, they should prove resistant to over-use of an air eraser, if the modeler chooses to use one to smooth surfaces before painting.

Regarding the boat platform, a 3D printed platform would further increase the cost of an already very expensive product, and could be easily replicated by the modeler for little or no cost. I am sensitive to the cost of these products simply because expensive products put these products out of the reach of modelers who would enjoy them. Expensive products do not sell, no matter how good the design.

I could design the 20mm Oerlikon AA platform as a separate product for those that want one. Thoughts?

Good news! The 1942 version is nearly done. The modifications from the 1936 design to the 1941 design are based on official "Navy Yard, Pearl Harbor General Arrangement" plans dated 15 April 1942 found in Steve Wiper's "Warship Pictorial #33, USS Lexington CV-2" on pages 36-37 (highly recommended reference), and photos of the ship taken at Pearl when the mods were made. They clearly show the mods made to the aft 8" fire control station platforms to include clipping rooms and 20mm Oerlikon positions. The clipping rooms in the 3D design feature open scuttles in locations indicated by the NYPH drawings. These drawings also include the footprint and shape of the 1.1" Chicago Piano position splinter shielding, a product I already offer separately. No plastic kit manufacturer captures the curved shape of the shielding as shown in the NYPH drawings, a discussion made in the CASF CV-2 thread. So I made a 3D design as an alternative for those modelers who prefer them curved instead of the rectangular kit parts.

by **marijn van gils** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:12 am

That looks great Steve!

It is great to see some things which are pretty hard to correct on the trumpeter kit like the larger space between the two central funnel openings, or the slots under the side top edges of the funnel. The support beam structures under the platforms look really great too!

I'm only wondering what the 5 horizontal lines around the funnel are?
The vertical pairs on the starboard side are the rails of the ammo hoist (also great to see the elevator details at the top platform!). There was also one handrail on the starboard side, but this is located a bit under the secondary conning station so doesn't match with one of the lines.
So I'm guessing they portray the plating? For this, however, I find them to be too heavy. It might be better to leave them to the modeler to paint them on? Anyway, there are also many vertical plating seams which would be missing now.

And, no intention to include the boat platform?
I hope the '42 version will include the 20mm AA platform on the starboard side?

I wish I had this available to use a couple of years ago�

Cheers,

Marijn

by **ModelMonkey** » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:39 pm

MatthewB wrote:So....

Do you have a 1/700, 1942 Lexington Bridge AND Funnel?....
MB

Hi, Matt!

The 1942 Lexington funnel design is not yet complete but should be by this time next week [edit: done!]. A 1941 Lexington funnel (no secondary conning position/flight control station but aft 8" fire control station is retained) will be released about the same time.

Thanks for your patronage!

by **MatthewB** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:49 pm

So....

Do you have a 1/700, 1942 Lexington Bridge AND Funnel?

I notice that you have a 1942 Funnel.

I have just ordered a 1942 Lexington from Trumpeter, and some PE for it, but I noticed that the bridge and funnel were kinda flaky.

I'd like to try some of your stuff with it.

MB

by **ModelMonkey** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:54 pm

Thanks so much!

And for those patiently waiting a 1936 USS Lexington CV-2 funnel, here you go:

Features:[/b]
- fully assembled
- accurately dimensioned from US Navy Booklet of General Plans drawings dated 1936
- accurate elliptical shape, not slab-sided a some plastic kits are, and the 01 level is wider aft
- detail shapes and locations confirmed by careful study of photographs of the actual ship
- open smoke pipes, accurately sized and properly sloped and compartmented, passing all the way through
- properly sized and accurately shaped secondary conning station/aviation control station with open windows
- open vents just below the funnel cap
- funnel cap roof has the correct complex curve - plastic kit manufacturers get this shape wrong
- funnel cap access hatches (3)
- ammunition hoists on the starboard side of the AA platform with delicate guide rails extending to the flight deck level
- access hatches on the roof of the fresh water tank (the boxy structure on the 01 level forward of the stack)
- accurate splinter shield shapes with ribs properly numbered, sized and located
- accurate aft 8" fire control station "fighting top" on the funnel with open windows
- detailed interior barbette and associated bulkheads with open scuttles, visible through:
- open A/T doors, ready for your favorite photoetch
- open portholes (airports) properly sized and located
- delicate exterior electrical cabling, accurately positioned
- subtle, raised locators for searchlights, directors and 20mm Oerlikons
- heavy structural supports included
- light structural supports, railings and ladders omitted, ready for your favorite photoetch

Note about cost: this is comparatively a very large model. The design's high cost is due to the extraordinary amount of acrylic plastic necessary to produce it (a whopping 41 cubic cm in 1/350 scale) and the time required to print it. Unfortunately, it is not printable in other, less expensive materials.