The Ship Model Forum

Tks Tom! :thumbs_up_1:

Most impressive. This brings back distant memories as mid 60's I served as a deck hand on one of these, but being in a shipyard, we never had any rusty sides or other weathering, meticulously maintained. I remember we had a Filipino Motor mech who always hid out in his beloved and spotless engine room.

Cheers: Tom

Tks Hank! :thumbs_up_1:

Pascal,

All I can say is "Wow"! First Class work!!!

Hank

My second display case of this type is finished (2mm glass and brass angle iron).

The next showcase to be made will be for the SS Nomadic which is now completely finished.

The topic "Completed ship" has been updated:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=349477&p=979683#p979683

The Nokomis' display case completed in February 2023:

[url=https://postimg.cc/zVYSyRsW][img]https://i.postimg.cc/J4GTdNKT/IMG-1851.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/Kkd7rK46][img]https://i.postimg.cc/GtpMRGRm/IMG-1852.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/hQTLCSdf][img]https://i.postimg.cc/GtSXmt3J/IMG-1854.jpg[/img][/url]

A monkey's fist I made back circa mid 60's is dangling from the lamp beside me as I write this. Even has some nice whipping. The inclusion of a lead ball (non standard) improved the heaving properties, mine is sadly standard. I can still do short and eye splices with some proficiency.

Tugs were then and remain a province of deck seamanship.

Model making is about more than model making.

Tom

Wefalk said:
[quote]Otherwise I have a bibliography of about 65 works on masting and rigging from the last three centuries in various edtions and languages. Many of them I have as either physical or ebooks.
But we are digressing a bit from the subject, I think.[/quote]

So do I!! (have all those books+ more!!) - getting harder to find, esp. in good condition or original edition. I don't do e-books - my library is a REAL library!! :heh:

And so what if this digresses??? - I think it's an interesting sideline - We too, on the 4 ships I served in, had all the exterior railings, ladders, etc. adorned with handiwork by the Bos'ns Mates. Of course, once we went to Bremerton for decomm (USS NEW JERSEY - 1969) all that small stuff was stripped and the railings, etc. painted std. Navy colors. S.O.P. for putting a ship into mothballs.

Thinking back now, I wish I had made some photos of all the more intricate Fancywork that was done - would be an interesting collection of "shipwork art".

Hank

:thumbs_up_1: Interesting. :cool_2:

There are loads of books on sailors' 'fancy-work' actually. Can't give you any references, as I am not so terribly interested in that.

A classical reference for everything to do with knots and hitches is

ASHLEY, C.W. (1944): The Ashley Book of Knots.- p., New York (Doubleday).

There umpteen re-editions, reprints and translations.

Otherwise I have a bibliography of about 65 works on masting and rigging from the last three centuries in various edtions and languages. Many of them I have as either physical or ebooks.

But we are digressing a bit from the subject, I think.

On the OK City we spent a lot of time (up to eight weeks at a time) sitting off the coast of Vietnam waiting for naval gunfire missions or MiG hunting. It was pretty boring and the bosun's mates passed the time making McNamara's lace, monkey fists and wrapping every vertical and horizontal post, rail and stanchion with all sorts of fancy braids made of "small stuff" (look it up in the Bluejacket's Manual).

Some of it was very intricate. But it wasn't just for decoration. A wet braided ladder rail was much easier to hang on to in storms and high seas than a bare pipe.

Each of the plethora of knots and splices had a purpose in sailing ship days. Darcy Lever's "The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor" (1808) tells how to rig a ship, and shows how to make knots and where to use them. George Biddlecombe's "The Art of rigging" (1925, an update of David Steel's "The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship" 1794) also shows how to make knots and splices and tells where to use them. These books are fascinating reading if you are interested in how sailing ships worked. You can find Steel's original work on line.

Phil

[attachment=0]IMG_2490.JPG[/attachment]

Bosun's mate pop quiz, pointing a rope. From the 1943 Eleventh edition of the 'Bluejacket's Manual. All sorts of interesting stuff about worming and serving wire ropes, making fenders and whatnot.

Curiosity prompted me to reference my dad's 1943 "Blue Jacket's Manual" (BJM) which has a good dissertation on ropes and lines at the start of the lengthy section on deck seamanship. Good discussion on how the fibers are made into rope and how this affects their strength with handling and use. For instance the common Manila does not un stretch after a strain is applied, reducing in diameter and increasing in length. Also kinking can reduce the strength by up to 30%. Tar and hemp, roots back to the age of sail, and before! Even describes a new "golden" Manila rope aging to a light grey.

When I began climbing in the early 60's, we still used manila ropes, with all the disadvantages except availability and cost. As we began doing more technical adventures, we eventually adopted the European "Perlon" which was synthetic with parallel strands and a woven sheath. It's elasticity was helpful in absorbing the shock of arresting a leader fall.

Cheers: Tom

Thanks, Tom!!! That was also a 6-year project!!!!

Pascal - sorry, not trying to steal your thread :huh:

Hank

Nice work Hank!

Gentlemen:

Not getting into the discussion re. left/right/etc. laid cables, but lines (shrouds to be exact) were SERVED with small stuff to prevent chaffing from the contact with sails. The leading shroud on each set of lines was covered with a canvas wrap and then small stuff was applied (served) over the canvas. Once this had been completed, the resulting wrapped cable was then coated with tar to waterproof it and provide an extra layer of protection. Back in the early 2000s (doesn't THAT sound quaint??? :doh_1: ) I developed a serving machine to do just that for making served lines for my 1:48 U. S. Sloop of War PEACOCK -
[attachment=1]New Shaft - Pulley-Gusset (Small).JPG[/attachment]
The serving small stuff was wrapped either left hand twist or right hand twist depending on the side of the ship that was being rigged. I believe back then I was using Bluejacket black cotton line and a thin dia. cotton line for the small stuff. I didn't see the need to actually wrap the inner cable with "canvas", but simply coated the completed served line with flat black paint.
About the best photo I have of this completed "served" line is this:
[attachment=0]Stbd Anchor Buoy & Rig (Small).JPG[/attachment]
If you notice the leading shroud is somewhat thicker than the ones behind, thus illustrating the aforementioned process.

Torpedo the dams!!! Full Speed to the Head!!! :shipcaptain:

Hank

I would avoid any elastic material as it is likely to become brittle with time - I know it is attractive, because it forgives you unequal tensioning, but it is also not so realistic, as all lines will follow a catena due their own weight.

Yes I remember you mentioning the ropewalk previously! I have been using the Guttman thread as it is smooth and available in many colors n my local thread shop. There are some colors available that are used for sports clothing that have a small amount of stretch which has some advantage for some rigging applications. It is possible that stretch elements may not have the best longevity? In aviation mechanics we have a tool that twists safety wire to secure fasteners from loosening via drilled bolt heads.

Education never ceases!

Tom

Well, yes, there has been quite a discussion about Dirk's research on left-handed hawser-laid rope in our German fora ...

It seems that even museums now prefer polyester thread over the traditional linnen one for rope-making. A brand commonly used on both sides of the Atlantic is Gütermann's Mara that is available in many suitable colours and shades.

As it is available only down to a certain size, many people, including myself are using polyester fly-tying threads as starting material for rope-making. My preferred brand is the Danish Veevus two-ply that is available down to size 16/2 in suitable colours.

Polyester has the advantage of being smooth, without fuss and can be tempered to take out the springiness.

Here is my rope-walk for making sub-millimetre ropes, constructed from an inherited 1 metre long optical bench:

[img]https://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/tips/Ropewalk/ropewalk-02.jpg[/img]
[url]https://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/tips/Ropewalk/Ropewalk.html[/url]

With a rope-walk you can also unravel commercial threads/rope and give the correct lay.

Pascal:

Thank you for the explanation, modeling is an art form and the artist-constructor is allowed interpretation within the Genre. It is a little like commenting that Picaso used the wrong colors. You comments and insight are appreciated. In ship modeling we are generally attempting to recreate in miniature a reasonable semblance of an original, or in some cases a might have been. Given WWII was generally fought in Black and White (a popular modeling era) I suppose we could just decorate our ships in shades of black and white and follow most of the evidence. My 96 year old father does remember there being color in the era, though first hand witnesses tend to be unreliable. I remember there being colors in the early 1950's but I can't prove it...

Great work and thank you for the explanation about ropes and rigging!

Tom

Interesting:


https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-41-post-438.html

[quote]

ABSTRACT

There seems to be much confusion amongst model-makers over the ways in which rope was laid for various functions in a ship. The three general ways (hawser-laid, shroud-laid and cable-laid) are clear in their definitions and uses, but the confusion seems to arise when modellers use the wrong lay of the rope for its different uses.

Thus there have been many who have claimed that shrouds of 17th, 18th and mid 19th century ships are usually made with left handed plain rope. That is simply not correct. Only cable-laid rope is left-hand laid. It is true that cable-laid ropes were sometimes used as shrouds on large warships, but this was the exception. Shrouds usually used (especially on merchant shipping) were shroud-laid: that being four strands with a central line or heart, laid to the right.

I have seen many contemporary and actual Models, even from World Champions, with left-handed running rigging, and sometimes a mix of left- and right-handed running rigging. This made me wonder why this should be, as it seems at the least illogical.

There have also been many discussions about breeching rope on canons and/or carronades as to whether they were cable-laid or left-handed hawser-laid.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of contradictory statements that are basically never backed up with sources. Some of the wrong things have simply taken root as ‘correct’.

This article tries to clear the air about the different uses of rope and show that Hawser-Laid Rope, used for all the running rigging were and is always right-handed, Z-Laid Rope.

It has to be acknowledged that the wide-spread use of left-handed running rigging or left-handed shrouds is historically wrong, unless made as cables or cablets.[/quote]

PDF file to download: https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/attachment.php?aid=38

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