The Ship Model Forum

That's pretty cool, I guess I've never thought about the fact it rotates like that, for some reason I thought it was like the gun directors and only moved at what they're trying to see. Thanks for sharing

Check out her CXAM
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1043586949-circa-1942---20mm-guns-fired-uss

All good then, Abram :)

Jeff and Vladi, Thanks for the information and looking into this with me.

Vladi, the Houston kit is the one I have, I just didn't distinguish which version of a kit I was using on the spread sheet. Thanks for checking on that.

I also found this article that talks about USS Minneapolis and the filming of the movie. This confirms the date of 12/5/41 so Chicago was definitely in MS-11 before the attack.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/solano-news/fairfield/salute-to-veterans-2019-retrospective-local-man-lived-through-pearl-harbor-subsequent-action/%3famp=1

Hi Abram and all, this is very interesting! I actually had a [url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/1938148576493719/permalink/2109928462649062/]discussion about the possibility of Chicago retaining 5-S (Ms11) even after her voyage to Australia in the Facebook Warship Camouflage Research Group[/url] some weeks ago. Just my speculation on how to explain why the "Chicago Blue" happenned to be very different from even faded 5-N. Now you proved she actually wore 5-S before Pearl Harbor attack. I acknowledge there are arguments against her retaining 5-S later, it´s just a possibility. FWIW

Abram, re your table of turret colours above - I hope you are aware you actually need the USS Houston Corsair Armada kit to make a 1941 Chicago (unless you replace most of her superstructure like I did ;) ). Their Chicago kit depicts her after the final refit in Dec 1942.

Abram,
Looks like my leading candidate for the date of this film footage is Dec.5, 1941 in the morning before Minneapolis left the formation at 0920.
[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/9fQKS4HZ/Screen-Shot-2020-02-03-at-10-50-37-PM.png[/img][/url]
[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/Z5cXV82J/Screen-Shot-2020-02-03-at-10-51-38-PM.png[/img][/url]

So I have a feeling that Chicago was probably painted in MS-11 in November at Pearl like Raleigh, Detroit, St Louis, Honolulu, Phoenix were.

Jeff, looks like Ms11 for sure for how I'm trying to depict the ship then, but with natural wood decks, based on the info you provided in the Portland and Indy thread.

Abram,
I haven't taken the time yet to go through USS Portland's deck logs to figure out when this 1941 footage for the movie "To the Shores of Tripoli" was shot. She was sailing with USS Astoria (camera ship), USS Minneapolis, and USS Chicago.
[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/h4mpZ4xv/Screen-Shot-2020-02-03-at-7-10-37-PM.png[/img][/url]

All ships except USS Chicago were wearing MS-1. Chicago was in MS-11. I suspect it was either Aug or Sept of '41 but that is only a guess at this point.

Hi all, I've been gathering references/pictures for a future build of the 4 Northampton class cruisers of the Pacific fleet in 1941. I was curious if anyone knew when Chicago was painted into Ms11 from Ms1. Shipcamouflage.com states she was in Ms1 all the way until repainted into Ms21 in 1942, but photos of her in December of 1941 show she definitely was not in Ms1 (and also shows Lexington in Ms12). The time frame I'm going to building her as is Nov-Dec 1941, so I'll go overall sea blue, but was just curious if she actually wore Ms1 (I haven't seen any pictures I can remember of her in Ms1)

[attachment=1]ChicagoLexingtonDec1941.jpg[/attachment]

I was also curious if anyone could help me determine the turret top colors. This is what I've discerned from info on Tracy White's website

[attachment=0]Cruisers.JPG[/attachment]

Good catch! I thought the sailor was further apart but thinking about it again now that you pointed it out, you may be right! Thanks once again!

[quote="Vladi"]thanks a lot, these are wonderful close-up photos of the Augusta! Dou you have any dates for them?[/quote]
They were taken during Operation Torch in late 1942

I agree with your observations but I would possibly think there was an inclined ladder angled out from the centerline. In the first image, you see a sailor who's head is almost even with the 1.1 tub. Don't know what else would be there to have him so elevated other than he is descending a inclined ladder? It could open just out of sight being obscured by aforementioned superstructure.

Matt

Hello Matt,

thanks a lot, these are wonderful close-up photos of the Augusta! Dou you have any dates for them?

You are indeed right about the differences in modifications between sisters. I cross-checked my Chicago collection once again and the two photos below clearly witness that - compare them to your Louisville photo. It seems that in case of Chicago the upper 5in deck ended even with the aftmost splinter shield without any opening for an inclined ladder leading downwards. The second photo perhaps indicates a vertical ladder close to the centerline? So perhaps there was only a narrow gangway (obscured by the superstructure here) leading to the spotting glass platform. In that case presumably another vertical ladder provided access to the 1.1in gun tub from the lower 5in deck.

It also seems that the 1.1in gun tub centerline part was already closed at this time, it can be seen behind the railings.

What do you think?

Couple more images,

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/25rStmkd/Louisville-gun1.jpg[/img]
A larger and clearer crop of the Louisville image. You can make out the steps down into the tub and linking rails to inclined ladder going from Gun deck to boat deck.

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/9QGf1zhF/Chester-gun1.jpg[/img]
The Chester shows he Inclined ladder down to the boat deck, which probably means there was a Vertical Ladder up to the gun tub.

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/wBRYFGJ5/Northampton-Wreck.jpg[/img]
Take what can be seen with a grain of salt, it appears the back of the Northampton's tub was open however it can't be certain that it just isn't there anymore.

Artistic license may be the best option.

Matt

Vladi,

Been doing some digging around, found these two images if they can be of any help. I get a feeling that each ship may have had a different set up depending on yard they were fitted.
Both of these images are from the Augusta

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/QdJwxrDd/Augusta-Gun1.jpg[/img]
Gun tub looks elongated and there does not appear to be access from the center line. This would be more inline with above posted plan showing stairs down from upper gun deck.
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/xTHBhzFH/Augusta-gun2.jpg[/img]
This image was taken from a few feet behind the above one, there is a large locker or possible hoist which would make the access to the 1.1 tub kind of narrow I feel.

I will keep looking as I feel I have another shot of the Portland somewhere, but you can already see in the image I posted in that CASF that there was a break on the Center line side of the tub and probably a vertical ladder just out of frame.

HTH
Matt

Thank you! I think the drawing shows larger gun tubs than what would correspond to quad 1.1 (although it´s 1.1 quad drawn in there). There should be an inclined ladder connecting the upper and lower 5in gun platforms that is not shown here (and would not fit in). The back of the gun tub (looking from the ship´s side) should be open and somehow connected to the ladder. This can all be barely made up on the 1940 navsource photos, on the second Life magazine Northampton photo and also on the Louisville one I posted, but no details about how exactly it looked like. I´ll have to use some artistic licence one again :)

It looks like there's an overhang there, so that suggests a Fwd mount.

Here's part of a [b]CA-30[/b] drawing--re its absolute fidelity I cannot say--that gives an idea of how enclosed those mounts may have been.
Also, the big, high quality photo of [b]CA-29[/b] being refit in 1940 at Mare Island posted at [i]navsource[/i] has a pretty good view (when enlarged) of those mounts, too.

HTH

Thank you! I´ve got these photos, too, unfortunately they miss what I need precisely. The second one would have shown it the best, just the sailor to the left obscured exactly that spot.
The last one I think shows the forward quad 1.1 mount as there would be nothing above the aft one. What do you think?

Best I can do at the moment...without more digging around. I think the area you are interested in is just to the L behind the practice loader shot, FWIW. (All photos from LIFE zine)

Thanks, guys!
[quote="Dick J"]The Life photos show the upper level on Portland [i]was[/i] wood covered...[/quote]
You are indeed right :)
[quote="taskforce48"]Vladi,
I saved these back when it was easy to search the Life Archives... [/quote]
Pity these are not easily searchable anymore :(
Would anyone have a photo of Northampton-class (or maybe even Portland-class) showing clearly the area circled below at the back of the aft 1.1 AA tub (not quad 40mm, the tub was different by then) from above or looking down from the back? I am trying to find how much of the back of the tub was opened, how was the arrangement of the ladder going down there and how did the quad 1.1 mount crew get there.
This is hopefully the last thing I need to sort this our before spraying my build ;)