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Topic review - Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
HEREWARD did not take part in either Battle of Narvik.
HOTSPUR, seen in Skjelfjord after the 1st Battle of Narvik in a photo at http://www.bjerkvikhistorie.no/Jagere/B ... otspur.jpg, and in another on her return from Skjelfjord for repairs (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205050059), seems to be in an overall dark grey scheme, with white pendant numbers, divisional leader's band (red?) on the forefunnel and two flotilla bands (red?) on the after funnel.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:23 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
Hereward might not be in those colors for the 2nd battle of Narvik as she was worked on twice in the 1st part of the year thereby missing the 1st battle of Narvik.
January Deployed for special escort duty.

23rd Sailed from Bermuda for Halifax with HM Destroyer HUNTER as escorted for HM Battleship

VALIANT and HM Cruiser ENTERPRISE with HM Destroyer HUNTER.

(Note: HMS VALIANT had been working-up in the West Indies).

27th Taken in hand for weather damage repair on arrival at Halifax

February Under repair.

16th Repair work completed.

28th Escorted HM Cruiser ORION, carrying ashes of Governor General of Canada to UK.

March On passage to UK.

11th Taken in hand for repair and installation of Degaussing at Portsmouth.

April

12th On completion of repair and worked-up for service with Home Fleet.

(Note: The repair work prevented the ship being with her Flotilla during the 1st Battle

of Narvik).
http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono ... reward.htm

Hunter was under refit from beginning of February to beginning of March.
February Transferred to Home waters for refit.

2nd Took passage to Plymouth.

8th Taken in hand for refit in commercial shipyard at Falmouth.

March Under refit.

9th On completion carried out post refit trials.

Prepared for operational service in 2nd Destroyer Flotilla, Home Fleet
http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono ... unter1.htm
Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
This thread has been silent for a while, but on the off-chance that the H-class still has some fans...

I am working on plans to model some of the participants in the battles of Narvik. From photos of the RN destroyers I have seen (and some film footage) they appear to be in Home Fleet Dark Grey, with white pennant numbers. However, they are all of the participants of the second battle (Tribals, Hero). Does anyone have any knowledge of the colours worn by the H-class ships at the first battle? Overall Dark Grey might be the best assumption, but can anyone confirm this, or provide evidence of other schemes? I know Hunter was with Hereward in the South Atlantic towards the end of 1939, and they then came north. They were separated when Hunter needed some dockyard work, and there is a lovely clear photo of Hereward dated Dec 1939 taken off the US coast. She is in a two-tone scheme, with lighter upperworks. Does anyone know whether Hunter wore that scheme too, and whether she would still have worn it by April 1940? (some HF destroyers did, notably the F-class flotilla, and the photos of Glowworm taken from Hipper suggest she did too).

Martin
Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:25 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
Hi,
I am mew to this forum, and if I attempted to do a model I would end up glueing my fingers together!!!! So you have my respect. The reason for this post is I am a second year fine art student about to prepare work for our first exhibition. My subject is the lose of a ship H.M.S Harvester and the lose to my family of my Uncle who was on his first trip out as a coder and was killed when she was torpedoed and sunk. Like you model guys I very much would like to get details right . I have a Master craft model of the Harvester but it is very small and being all fingers and thumbs I would never attempt to make it. I have also printed some images of the ship of the internet but they are not very clear. I also have a copy of some of the board of enquiry papers into the sinking in which one of the survivors mentions that Harvester broke in half ' The fore part, for about fifty feet was floating perpendicularly , and the aft part was sticking out of the water at an angle of 20b 30 degrees' has any one got any idea where on the ship the break would be? Although I am interested in the ship I am trying to work more from the tragedy of the human lose but cant find any internal images of Ex Brazilian destroyers or ratings on convoy duty. I have been very impressed with the level of knowledge you guys show and your concern with detail. If you could help me i would be very grateful.
Thanks
Russell
Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: HMS HYPERION  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
Here's a photo captioned as HYPERION I've not seen before: http://www.britain-at-war-magazine.com/ ... -web10.jpg. The camouflage scheme is interesting. Anyone know if the starboard side was similar, or where/when the photo was taken?
Tim

Quote:

i have a model of hms hyperion made on the ship during its sea trials by two engineering officers then raffled off and it was won by my father any information or names of the two officers would be appreciated captain of the ship i believe was commander parish
Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
Dick,

Thanks - you make a number of good points! The HERO photo has no background, and no boat on the for'd davits. Odd. I suspect the censor's hand on this and the HYPERION photo.
Tim
Post Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:

Dick - she's under way (I think) - no jack at the jackstaff, ensign in the "sea" position) but doesn't seem to be going fast enough for a big bow-wave. That said, it doesn't look like one that's painted on.

Tim


Tim,

I'm not sure that those flag formalities were followed that much during the war. I have many pictures showing ships at anchor and moored to buoys with no jack on jackstaff and White Ensign on the main.

However in every picture I have of ships entering or leaving Alex the crew are lining the rails and there is someone on the bridge. The quality of the Hyperion picture is poor, but I cannot make out anyone on deck.

Here is a picture of Hero that I am also a bit suspicious of:

http://picasaweb.google.com/dickfalmout ... 7923814146

There is something about the bow wave and water at the bow that seems false to me. And I cannot see an RN ship moving whilst still having the spar and rope ladder dangling from it (for swimmers) rigged to starboard.

Same flotilla, same sort of time, same place...coincidence?

Best wishes.

Afterthought: I also wonder if all those wind scoops fitted on her hull portholes to ventilate the mess decks forward and wardroom cabins aft might be relevant. I understand these were fitted from the inside through an open porthole. Would a man o’war in time of war have gone to sea with these fitted and all those portholes therefore open?
Post Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:16 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
ar - thanks - not sure about a large black band on the after funnel of any 2DF ships - never seen that anywhere. I'm not certain the after funnel has a black band above the flotilla bands - on my screen this area appears to vary in intensity on the after part of the funnel compared to the more forward part, and slightly lighter than the band on the forefunnel - which is itself darker than the top of the after one.

Purely as a guess, it looks to me as if the camouflage designer intended this scheme to represent a different (enemy?) ship, with funnels more steeply raked than the actual ship's, and, because she was acting as leader and displaying the appropriate band on the forefunnel, couldn't extend the light colour to the top of the after funnel. That said, such "disguise" schemes are pretty rare; the only RN ones I know of which could be loosely described as such are NORFOLK, DORSETSHIRE and LATONA (all of which appeared to have painted "ships" on their sides) plus WELSHMAN and MANXMAN for their famous runs into Malta or towards Genoa respectively.

Tim
Post Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:27 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
Thanks for the comments:

ar - not sure about the after funnel. Looks to me like what is visible is the two steam pipes fore and aft which, as on most 2DF ships, have their tops level with the top of the uppermost of the two flotilla stripes.

Dick - she's under way (I think) - no jack at the jackstaff, ensign in the "sea" position) but doesn't seem to be going fast enough for a big bow-wave. That said, it doesn't look like one that's painted on.

Tim


I looked again and agreed with you, again and changed my mind back. Now I am uncertain.
Do not have my material to hand, but did the 2nd flotilla have a large black band on the second funnel. Bear in mind that the ship as shown is acting as Leader, ie no pendant number and a large black band on the fore funnel.
Thank you.
Post Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:05 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks for the comments:

ar - not sure about the after funnel. Looks to me like what is visible is the two steam pipes fore and aft which, as on most 2DF ships, have their tops level with the top of the uppermost of the two flotilla stripes.

Dick - she's under way (I think) - no jack at the jackstaff, ensign in the "sea" position) but doesn't seem to be going fast enough for a big bow-wave. That said, it doesn't look like one that's painted on.

Tim
Post Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:08 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
ar wrote:

I have a few photos of A -Is taken in 1940 showing false bow waves for what it is worth.


Yes, it could be a false bow wave painted onto the ship itself I suppose. Quality of photo makes it difficult to be sure?

The scheme itself is similar to Dorsetshire early 1940 in the first of your camo volumes.
Post Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:06 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
dick wrote:
Tim,

Old coal gantry affair in the background is very distinctive - that is Alexandria. That narrows down the date quite a bit if Hyperion...

(I am suspicious that the photo has been doctored to give a stationary ship a bow wave.)

Cheers.


Nice photo.
I have a few photos of A -Is taken in 1940 showing false bow waves for what it is worth.
Also note the aft funnel has had the outer casing cut down by several feet, but NOT the uptake.
A few destroyers had this feature early in the war.
Post Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:34 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Royal Navy H-class fans  Reply with quote
Tim,

Old coal gantry affair in the background is very distinctive - that is Alexandria. That narrows down the date quite a bit if Hyperion...

(I am suspicious that the photo has been doctored to give a stationary ship a bow wave.)

Cheers.
Post Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:32 pm
  Post subject:  HMS HYPERION  Reply with quote
Here's a photo captioned as HYPERION I've not seen before: http://www.britain-at-war-magazine.com/ ... -web10.jpg. The camouflage scheme is interesting. Anyone know if the starboard side was similar, or where/when the photo was taken?
Tim
Post Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:17 am
  Post subject:  Re: RN Destroyer HMS Hunter found in fjiord.  Reply with quote
@Jim
once i putted it into the Picture of the Weeks Section at http://www.marinewerft.de
http://www.marinewerft.de/Picture%20of%20the%20Week.htm
http://marinewerft.foren-city.de/topic, ... -2006.html

Well, the Story behind it is, that she took Part in Operation Weserübung. Then 10th of April 40 Warburton-Lee went in with his 2nd DD Flotilla. During this Battle several british and german DD was sunk (Hunter sunk, Hardy aground, Wilhelm Heidkamp, Anton Schmidt sunk)
During the second british Raid to Narvik (13th of April 40, 9 DDs, 1 BB (HMS Warspite)) Z 2 ran out of Ammo and was damaged by 7 seven Artillery Hits and caught Fire. Her last Torpedo hits HMS Eskimo and broke the Bow off. CPT decided to run her on the Rocks to save Crews Live and gave Order to abandon Ship. Crew was ordered to regroup at a Railway 300m above the grounding Spot. While moving up there, many Losses appear through continued Fire by the britsh DDs. 27 Men lost.

@all
I´ll visit my Parence about 17th March and digitalize the Album of my Uncle. Gonna share the Pics with you Guys. Maybe i´ll need some Help by some of you to identify the Destroyer he was sailing with.

Ragards

Alex
Post Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:04 pm
  Post subject:  Re: RN Destroyer HMS Hunter found in fjiord.  Reply with quote
JIM BAUMANN wrote:
Alexander--that second photo is amazing-when was it taken...?

any more info?

Tschuess

JIM B :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:


The wreck is still here and according to the side below, Z-2 actually damaged and sank a few ships, including HMS Hunter.

http://www.geocities.com/shipwrecks_magazine/narvik.htm

Best ~ Olaf!
Post Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:40 am
  Post subject:  Re: RN Destroyer HMS Hunter found in fjiord.  Reply with quote
Jim,
Both of Molders photos are of the "Z-2 Georg Thiele" Wrecksite at Rombaksbotten near Narvik.
One taken in 1940 and the colour taken in 1996.

http://marinewerft.foren-city.de/topic, ... -2006.html


Here's an update on the HMS Hunter story -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7283100.stm

A survivor's memories of the event.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7283819.stm

Dave
Post Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:57 am
  Post subject:  Re: RN Destroyer HMS Hunter found in fjiord.  Reply with quote
Dave Stone wrote:
A moment of reflection is indeed relevant. As we build these replicas it can some times be that we forget just why the real thing was made in the first place. In the end a ship is the people who man her.


agreed

. . .

Bill
Post Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:16 pm
  Post subject:  Re: RN Destroyer HMS Hunter found in fjiord.  Reply with quote
Alexander--that second photo is amazing-when was it taken...?

any more info?

Tschuess

JIM B :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:03 am
  Post subject:  Re: RN Destroyer HMS Hunter found in fjiord.  Reply with quote
Quote:
I reflected about it often. My Uncle was up there....
May something like this never happen again....


Just days before the first world war started, the Royal Navy and the German Imperial navy were side by side, (I believe it was in Kiel Harbour) When the Royal Navy was recalled home the German Fleet signalled to the British fleet "Friends Today, Friends Tommorow, Friends Forever". There was a time when the leaders of countries were foolish enough to make war, but the people of all those countries were better than those leaders because today, we are all friends and hopefully we will be Friends Tommorow, Friends Forever"
Post Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:14 pm

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