The Ship Model Forum

Ok guys, huge thanks! Looks like I have something to start with! Will fit out the Snowberry as fast as I can, and get Uragan underways ;o) I still have not decided which one in fact. My family wants me to build a ship of this class, not necessarily Vjuga. She is TOTALLY undocumented! Not a single photo found so far. I guess I might give one of the North fleet ones a go, due to their wonderful arctic camo, probably in the early war fit, still with old 102 mm guns, as I dont have plans for the new model 100 mm guns fitted around 1943-44.

Here is the ship in question:
http://www.Links to this site not allowed due to copyright violations./Magazine/MK/2005_05/Pictures/Color2.jpg

I am also lazy, so will likely select some of them equipped only with 37 mm AA guns, as they are same model as infantry ones, which are widely available in 1/72 ;o)

[quote="Andy G"] getting the frames correct and securely mounted to your building board. Plank-on-frame is a guaranteed method to make banana-shaped, asymmetric hulls if there's [i]any[/i] chance of the frames shifting or warping during construction.
[/quote]

Hi Petros ,

Andy is right about that , this is why I build , as already said , my hulls with the keel up .

You'll have to put "legs" on the top of your frames , the base line for those legs being the water line , look at my "Zinnia" building report ...

If you decide to build your hull the other way , with the keel "on the building way" , be sure you plank alternatively your hull ( one plank on the port side , the following plank on the STBD side , the following one on Port , etc ... )

apply the first 2 planks at the deck height , to stiffen the whole structure , apply then two planks at the keel level , and from there you go up & down till the hull is sealed ...

For a very first build , I also may suggest you buy a kit , like the "Renown" from Billing Boats , it doesn't cost a lot of money , and there you'll get enough skills to build a more ambitious project , like the Russian DE you spoke about ...

Regards ,

Laurent

Petros, plank-on-frame is a good way to go for a small one-off hull like this. Don't worry about a perceived lack of experience - you'll get it as you go!

With plank-on-frame you'll get a real feeling for the hull form, and you can watch it grow almost organically as you work on it. What I would really recommend though, if you choose to go this route, is to spend time and effort on getting the frames correct and securely mounted to your building board. Plank-on-frame is a guaranteed method to make banana-shaped, asymmetric hulls if there's [i]any[/i] chance of the frames shifting or warping during construction.

I personally wouldn't use plastic frames and sheeting - I don't like the material or the solvents - and I would addionally recommend the thickness that wood gives you.

At the size you suggest, I'd challenge Laurent's comment by saying that balsa [i]is[/i] an ideal material for the hull - it's light, available and relatively cheap. It's also extremely easy to work with: cuts are straightforward, and you can temporarily pin the structure together by hand as you go. That said - and here Laurent is [b]absolutely right[/b] - the ease of work that this material gives you makes it unsuitable for any sort of final finish.

I'm plating my (2mm thick!) balsa Dreadnought in card for an accurate, smoother and stronger final surface, and have backed the inside of the hull with fibreglass tissue and resin to lock the whole thing together.

Ron's Iron Duke hull uses tissue and filler over a balsa core - both are perfect ways to generate something tough enough to take a few knocks.

None of this is rocket-science: with care, time and (I'm sure) the positive advice of everybody on this forum, you will be able to produce a hull you'll be more than satisfied with. AND it'll be cheaper than a shop-bought one.

Hmmm...the only Uragan I can find is a hydrofoil boat. Do you have a picture of the vessel in question?

Regards,

Andy

Hi Admiral ,

I'm relieved :wave_1:

to give a better sight to Petros , some pictures of another of my builds :

[img]http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/10464/coque%20sur%20plan%20g%E9n%E9ral.jpg[/img]

60 other pictures to be seen here :
http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/thumbnails.php?album=389

I always buid my hulls upside down , I think it is better than with the keel "on the floor" , as it allows you to have a full access to the hull to plank it & to sand it while it still sits on the building form .

I never nail my planks , even if they are large , I then use industrial staples , wich are then removed once the glue has set ...

for the little 1/100 tug shown above , I just used plastic pliers to hold the planks on the frames

One of the most important point when you build a wooden plank on frame hull , is to put glue between the planks , so you'll get a very strong hull ...

I have known some modellers who just glued and nailed their planks on the frames , no glue between the planks , some putty , paint and so went they into the water ...

After a while , their hull were soaked with water , there came splits in their hull planking :big_grin:

Regards ,

Laurent

Laurent, You did not upset me about the balsa, but you should have posted that link in so the guy understood, what you were on about, yes a good idea, cheap also.

Hi all ,

about balsa , I think I offended our dear Admiral , it really was not my meaning ...

look at the wood I'm using :
http://www.titanic-model.com/articles/laurent/laurent_pt3.shtml

I mean by this way that scratch building a one meter long hull can be done with wood coming from such crates you can grab at the market near your home , Hell , you can get them for free ... :eyebrows:

to plank larger hulls , I use 3 mm thick 3 layers ply coming from the DIY store , it might cost a little more than balsa , but it is a lot stronger , and again , you don't need to fibreglass your hull ( which has a cost either )

Regards ,

Laurent

Ron, as i'm sure many people on MTV would say... "Shut yo' mouth!"

You know we all appreciate and look forward to your builds! In fact i've got alot coming up and whenever i go to build i look at your current build! your old ones are too hard to navigate, hundreds of pages, hundreds of pictures, hundreds of questions.... i need something fresh thats easier to navigate!

When they said dont hurt yourself they were just teasing. we ALL know you have the best threads on here, they were just complimenting the CASF thread that had an outlandishly high number considering the size of the rest of the CASF threads... they weren't trying to dethrone you or anything, we all know that none of us will be able to do that anytime soon....

Besides, if you quit posting builds then you wont have much to moderate....

[quote="ARH"]Over the last 7 years on this site I have tried to show different ways to do hulls , superstructure, small fittings.
Models like North Carolina, Iron Duke, and Moffet, and a very short sections of photo,s on the Star Purseus build, N C and ID both had balsa wood plank on frame hulls , you will not find many stronger hulls out there in model land, Im not saying do what I do, thats up to the individual, but please dont try to influance some one thats yours is the only method, because its not, yes its a good idea, if you have the money to spend on expensive woods , fittings, p/e, shop bought shafts and A frames, I chuck up the idea that there,s an alternative, there,s guys on some of these web sites that are building superb models, taking years .
Here if the build goes on to long they tend to loose interest, like I said at the beggining I been here 7 years , and I am thinking its time I was not here, I have not endeared myself to some of the guys, last week I was told not to hurt myself patting myself on the back, I was defending number of post in ID AND Moffett, against Calling all ship fans, some one had not noticed these two threads were the highest number of hits on the site, so I will bow out from scratchbuilding another subject, I will just over look all the great builds going on now, and keep doing the mod work.

Thanks to all the modellers that have supported my builds , look after scratch because this is where all the idea,s are, and people come to pick your brains, ARH :wave_1: :wave_1: :thumbs_up_1:[/quote]

ARH Please reconsider not posting. I look at ALL new scratch building posts and learn from ALL posts. Yours are particularly informative with proof of that being the hits. Moffet has been particularly useful to me as it is the first of your builds I was able to follow from the start.
If someone (unnamed at this time) has a problem with the number of posts a thread is getting to H with them. Unless there is a logical/financial reason to limit posts per thread what is the purpose of this website??
Should I ever get over waffling between a subject, I intend to scratch build something and will be using as much information from this site as possible. I will likely also ask many questions of the more experienced on this site.

Over the last 7 years on this site I have tried to show different ways to do hulls , superstructure, small fittings.
Models like North Carolina, Iron Duke, and Moffet, and a very short sections of photo,s on the Star Purseus build, N C and ID both had balsa wood plank on frame hulls , you will not find many stronger hulls out there in model land, Im not saying do what I do, thats up to the individual, but please dont try to influance some one thats yours is the only method, because its not, yes its a good idea, if you have the money to spend on expensive woods , fittings, p/e, shop bought shafts and A frames, I chuck up the idea that there,s an alternative, there,s guys on some of these web sites that are building superb models, taking years .
Here if the build goes on to long they tend to loose interest, like I said at the beggining I been here 7 years , and I am thinking its time I was not here, I have not endeared myself to some of the guys, last week I was told not to hurt myself patting myself on the back, I was defending number of post in ID AND Moffett, against Calling all ship fans, some one had not noticed these two threads were the highest number of hits on the site, so I will bow out from scratchbuilding another subject, I will just over look all the great builds going on now, and keep doing the mod work.

Thanks to all the modellers that have supported my builds , look after scratch because this is where all the idea,s are, and people come to pick your brains, ARH :wave_1: :wave_1: :thumbs_up_1:

yeah, i recommend plank on fram for a first timer.

Petros ,

the easiest & the most satisfacting way , to me , is to build a wooden plank-on-frames hull .

looks very tricky the first time you begin on something like that , but with the good advice & pictures , I assure you , it's a piece of cake ...

And once it is done , the only thought going into your head is : "Wow , did I built this myself ?" :woo_hoo:

If you use an other wood than balsa for your hull , there is no need to fibreglass it , just two layers of a polyurethane resin , and it becomes incredibingly strong and watertight ...

balsa is a very soft wood , and is not appropriate for a hull ( this is what I say , it is maybe not what others will hear ... ) :big_grin:

Regards ,

Laurent

I never did it too, but if I should build one I would try the way ARH built his USS Moffet hull.

Hello,

Im planning to start a soviet Uragan-class Patrol ship/DE in her 1945 config in 1/72, for RC, when my Snowberry will be done. However, I will need to build the hull, which will be almost exacltly 1 meter long in this scale. I never built a hull so far. So, how to do it?

I thought of 3 different techniques:
1) wooden ribs with wooden (plywood or balsa) planking.
2) thick plastic ribs, with plastic planking
3) solid/layered wooden hull model, covering it with fiberglass layers, and removing wood afterwards.

Which would be the best one for a not-really-well-equipped-home-workshop operated by not-too-skilled-newbee-scratchbuilder?