The Ship Model Forum

by **JWintjes** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:06 pm

Filipe Ramires wrote:Jorit,

Yes, the canvas question...my mind gave it an instant lazy thought on it for sure!!! It truly turns things simple even more because the "entrance" of the turret is kind of an arc shape!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps to consider putting some of the batteries trained and with canvas opened and others closed...like if they were kind in exercise...at least gives a bit more action to the ship.

Ah, that's a nice idea - only the guns on one side trained towards the target, with onlookers around. Have to remember that (hehe, nothing better than stealing other people's diorama ideas...

).

The guns I got myself the NNT set of metal barrels of 5.9'. Very good stuff indeed and the set brings 12 barrels so I will still have 4 left (perhaps for an old Z-class destroyer which is there getting old ).
About the Matchbox model I had it some years ago already in Revell box and I had the Fujimi one already. I recall that the details in the hull were pretty good but the rest, like you said, was slightly less quality compared to Fujimi. In any case I am barely using any parts of the original model. So far only part of the hull and the main turrets have been used and all heavily retouched by me! I guess my Spee is turning more in a "destroy first and rebuild better
after" exercise.

From what I see it's rather a scratchbuild using some undefined plastic parts that by pure accident come out of a box with "Spee" on it.

Excellent work!

Jorit

by **Filipe Ramires** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:01 pm

Jorit,

Yes, the canvas question...my mind gave it an instant lazy thought on it for sure!!!

It truly turns things simple even more because the "entrance" of the turret is kind of an arc shape!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps to consider putting some of the batteries trained and with canvas opened and others closed...like if they were kind in exercise...at least gives a bit more action to the ship.
The guns I got myself the NNT set of metal barrels of 5.9'. Very good stuff indeed and the set brings 12 barrels so I will still have 4 left (perhaps for an old Z-class destroyer which is there getting old

).
About the Matchbox model I had it some years ago already in Revell box and I had the Fujimi one already. I recall that the details in the hull were pretty good but the rest, like you said, was slightly less quality compared to Fujimi. In any case I am barely using any parts of the original model. So far only part of the hull and the main turrets have been used and all heavily retouched by me! I guess my Spee is turning more in a "destroy first and rebuild better after" exercise.

by **JWintjes** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 pm

Filipe,

not wanting to prevent you from excelling at scratchbuilding these - but these guns would be closed by a canvas screen on all but two occasions: combat/life fire exercise or special inspection (which seems to be the reason for the very interesting picture you posted).

I'd say simply paint the back in canvas colour....

One qualification, though - I realize that the shape of the guns is really poor, so there is probably a need for replacing them with something else.

Personally I'm not sure what to do; I have a Matchbox Spee in the wings and tend to think that using the Matchbox guns as a basis for reworking, but their shape is a little suspect.

Incidentally - sorry for hijacking, but I have to say this

- I think the Matchbox kit is somewhat underrated. Many of the small parts are very strange, but the hull is in my eyes better than the Fujimi one.

Jorit

by **Filipe Ramires** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:39 pm

Right, will looking for photos online of the back of the 11' main turrets of the Deutschlands (of which I got nearly nothing useful other then extreme needed zoom in photos) I found this good photo that solved a future problem ahead in the construction of Admiral Graf Spee...the back of the 5.9' turrets which are open but never got so far a decent photo of them in that angle. Here is the link for the photo in question:

http://www.militaritaeten.de/admiral-scheer-14.jpg

Problem is that I have to scratch-build all the secondary battery given that the parts that come with the model are "solid as concrete"!!! Now, wondering how to make 8x5.9' open turrets all equal!?!?!?!?! The barrels I have them already so it's one less thing to think about it.
Regards,

Filipe

by **Filipe Ramires** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:36 am

Terryn,

Thanks for the tip. If you can scan the photo and put it online it would be a great help indeed for me. Otherwise don't bother much about it. I am going to take a look on photos of Deutschland/Lutzow and Admiral Scheer to see if I can get a look on that part of the turret. Ships were of the same class so most likely everything should be equal in the main turrets.
Cheers,

Filipe

by **Terryn** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:51 am

Filipe

I've got several pictures which show a large flat thing that looks like some sort of ventilator on the back of the turrets. It looks as if there are two with one towards the outside edge on each side. There is an opening at the bottom. I'll try to scan a picture for you but my new Vista PC don't like my old scanner

They are depicted on the Italeri/Revell 1/720 kit but not the Fujimi one.

Happy Modelling.

Terry
Buenos Aires

Another question regarding Admiral Graf Spee. I am almost done with the process of detailing the main turrets however I lack photos or any information regarding the back of the main turrets. The question is there were any doors/hatches on the back or even smoke ventilators. I have dozens of photos of the ship and none of them shows this part of the turret. Annoying to say the least!!!
Any ideas?

by **Filipe Ramires** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:19 pm

Another question regarding Admiral Graf Spee. I am almost done with the process of detailing the main turrets however I lack photos or any information regarding the back of the main turrets. The question is there were any doors/hatches on the back or even smoke ventilators. I have dozens of photos of the ship and none of them shows this part of the turret. Annoying to say the least!!!
Any ideas?
Cheers,

Filipe

by **Filipe Ramires** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:13 pm

Cheers, Mike. Sounds a possible idea the aviation fuel canisters though, like you said, a bit far away from the aircraft apparatus...even more being in an upper deck. It would make sense indeed to keep the fuel tanks in a far away area, however a bit exposed as well and next to the torpedo tubes does not compute very well either!!!
The mystery of the 4 unknown canisters remains.
Anyway, got the NNT barrels for the 11' and 5.9 guns today. Very nice stuff. Started working on the main turrets for that purpose already. WEM set has some parts for the turrets as well and some small scratch needs to be done also in the side directors and optical instruments.
Will post photos of the main turrets in the next couple of days. Must enjoy these mini-vacations to the most. Monday starting new job.
Regards,

Filipe

by **mike mccabe** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:12 pm

Felipe
I think they are perhaps aircraft fuel tanks, they would be stored where they could be ditched overboard quickly if need be and it makes sense to have them as far away as possible from where a fire might start, or where they might cause damage if they caught fire. Only thing that wouldn't make me think that is that they are a long way from the aircraft so I wonder how the fuel might have been moved, if my guess is correct

Mike

by **Filipe Ramires** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:10 am

Smoke canisters....hmm, I don't know...they look to big to be smoke canisters...at least compared to the USN ones for instance...but might be a possibility. Any one else with more ideas?

by **Pieter** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:05 am

Maybe they are smoke canisters?

by **Filipe Ramires** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:06 pm

Cheers, Kym. Beer kegs, hmmmmm, the torpedo tubes crews are having a party on their own I guess. Doesn't sound silly if you take into account that the quarterdeck was sometimes used for festivities and you can see some crew members around doing....well, nothing! Yet, a stern photo of the ship at Montevideo shows what appears to be one of those objects as well...but I guess that at that time they were not celebrating anything...far from it!!! Clearly these are removable objects since other photos showing the stern of the ship not always show these objects or on the other hand other objects in their places. Damn worrying over-detail thoughts!!!!

by **Kym Knight** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:48 am

Hey Filipe, they look like beer kegs to me! Must be on their way to a party.
BTW. Great job your doing. Damn fine bit of scratch building.

by **Filipe Ramires** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:03 am

Good afternoon gents,

Another doubt regarding the Admiral Graf Spee!!! In the photo below you can see fairly well the stern of the ship and actually I am able to get some extra details from it yet I failed to realise what are those 4 kind of barrel-shape-looking things on the stern (2 on the sides of the stern and 2 immediately after the torpedo tubes)? Are these some sort of floating-anchor buoys?

Cheers,

Filipe

by **Filipe Ramires** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:11 pm

mike mccabe wrote:Can't get that picture to download, or to be honest couldn't be bothered to wait for as long as it was taking!

Well, no worries...it's that famous bow close-up photo of Graf Spee at Montevideo where you can clearly see the anchors and even one 8'' or 6'' shell hole on the side of the hull.

by **mike mccabe** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:50 am

Can't get that picture to download, or to be honest couldn't be bothered to wait for as long as it was taking!

Mike

by **DAVID BILEK** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:13 pm

Hi Filipe!

I would check the possibility to do it by thermoforming. One pattern (punch) will give you four identical pieces (left and right side you will do by cutting of shape of thermoformed pieces). Thin enough (depends on thickness of sheet) and easy to install (just drill the hole and install - thin sheet will follow easily the curved lines).
For pattern I would use some thicker anchor (from some old kit) covered by Milliput or by thick layer or Mr. Surfacer for smooth surface. Then bonded on some kind of rod (larger diameter - you will need flat area around to cut the shape) and you will have nice punch!

That would be my solution...

David

by **Filipe Ramires** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:18 pm

Hello everyone,

Got myself in a bit of a complication regarding one part I have to scratchbuild in Graf Spee. Basically it's the plate where the anchors are fitted when up on the sides of the hull. You can see very well the plates in the following link...the thing behind the anchors. Graf Spee had 4 anchors so therefore I need to do 4 of those plates that do not come in the model (what a surprise). I did try to venture myself in doing these plates with evergreen but given that they need to be holed so that the anchors can fit it turn out to be a very painful job and useless given the fragility of the part in the end. Any ideas of how I can solve this issue? Brass plate might be an idea I know but very hard to work with.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... h59660.jpg

Cheers,

Filipe

by **Filipe Ramires** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:30 am

mike mccabe wrote:Sometimes kit manufacturers baffle me.

It will be quite a while before I even think of this, maybe a shop around Telford might show up a cheap kit.

Yup, most true indeed. I wonder sometimes what manufacturers have in their minds!!! Exeter and other RN cruisers do have a big sale potential. Pity they don't see that. Wondering myself if the rumours of Tamiya releasing a plastic 1/700 County class heavy cruiser are true???
Regarding Telford I am trying to attend this year. Spee might be ready by the time given that I am concentrating most of my efforts on her at the moment.

Sauragnmon wrote:Definately should prove to be an interesting model once done. I would confess, most interesting to me, would be to build the Graf Spee with the fake turret in place. But I have enough on my plate right now, and having fought with one Fujimi Deutschland class kit already, and cursing myself for small solutions I should have gone through with such as adjusting the barbette positions with some creative cutting, along with other potential ideas. But, hindsight is always 20/20. Looking good so far on your work, Felipe.

Cheers Sauragnmon,

I did consider the chance of doing the fake turret and funnel as well but sadly I have seen only a couple of photos of Spee with that. Yet I have to give it some thought now that you remember me of that.

Sparrow wrote:Hi Filipe!.
I have Fujimi�s Admiral Scheer kit, and I wonder if it is the same Graf Spee in a different box.
Does someone know for sure?

I don't own Scheer yet, actually the only one of the class missing in my collection, though Deutschland is basically the same model as Spee. Hull, turrets and other parts are identical being the main superstructures the different parts given the differences between the ships. Since Scheer is more equal to Spee in appearance and design rather then Deutschland I would take that the model of Scheer would be pretty much identical to Spee's one.

by **Sparrow** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:51 am

Hi Filipe!.
Your Graf Spee looks very well so far.

I have Fujimi�s Admiral Scheer kit, and I wonder if it is the same Graf Spee in a different box.
Does someone know for sure?

Best regards.

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1/700 DKM Graf Spee (Dec 1939) - Fujimi

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