Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

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Expand view Topic review: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by RustyB » Wed May 27, 2026 2:37 am

Thank you for that fascinating insight, no doubt the mail being lost overboard didn't help things either .

I'm reminded of similar circumstances of a story I heard about HMS Eagle in the early 1970s. The crew were found to behaving "in a manner bringing the service into disrepute' during visits to the Far East , namely a lot of the crew were caught visiting ladyboy bars in Thailand . Whilst this was legal in the UK, the Navy still frowned upon it , and after deployment a large proportion of the crew were reassigned to "split them up" . This also coincided with the decision not to modernise her for economic reasons. Makes you wonder how much the shenanigans on the crew affected the Admiralty's view on fighting to keep her ?

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Pieter » Mon Jan 26, 2026 6:20 am

The captain was on a dead end anyway. Vanguard had no fans in Whitehall after Churchill and Chatfield were gone so being posted to the beast was not a good sign. Agnew retired early "at his own request'' in 1950.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Mr. Church » Fri Jan 23, 2026 6:26 pm

Her Captain very much does not appear to have covered himself in glory.

Seems the King stood up and faced the men and showed initiative and leadership qualities, while the Captain crashed and burned on that score.

Pretty humiliating to have MI-5 sent to formally investigate your crew. And in peacetime as well. Not even having the excuse of the severe pressures of war service.

A fascinating episode, all told. No wonder the files were kept classified for so long.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by EJFoeth » Wed Jan 14, 2026 6:06 am

Most interesting :thumbs_up_1:

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Mr. Church » Wed Jan 14, 2026 5:03 am

From recently declassified British Ministry of Defence files, it seems all was far from well aboard Vanguard during the Royal Tour of 1947:



From:

https://twitter-thread.com/t/2010401133106245649
(Link includes file extracts also)


In 1947 HMS VANGUARD, the last British battleship took the King & His family to South Africa. TOP SECRET MOD files, only declassified in late 2025 reveal a very different story about how the ship came close to open mutiny - with MI5, the Admiralty and the King all involved...

VANGUARD was launched by HRH Princess Elizabeth in 1944, and commissioned too late for WW2. In 1947 she was converted for service as a Royal Yacht to take the King to South Africa for the first visit by the Monarch. This was a high profile visit amid austerity of post war UK. The photo was taken in Jan 47, just before she sailed.

The ship arrived in Cape Town in Feb 1947 under the command of Rear Admiral Agnew (her first CO, holding local rank of Captain). Over 1700 crew were embarked for the tour. The Royal Party disembarked to conduct their tour, with the ship then conducting a local programme off the South African coast. (image ©National Museum of the Royal Navy.)

VANGUARD had an unhappy early life. The crew had many 'hostilities only' ratings awaiting demobilisation, and other new barely trained conscripts onboard. Sailors complained about the cramped living conditions, poor quality food and sense of 'us and them' divide between the Officers and Ratings. The cafeteria messing system, new to the ship, was seen as a source of considerable angst by many of the Ratings. Some sailors had written to the left wing journalist Hannen Swaffer, who had written about the poor conditions onboard. His articles were used by some of the crew to stir up discontent over the state of crew accommodation and the poor feeding arrangements.

On 22 March the CINC South Atlantic Station (Vice Adm Moody) embarked for 2 nights. The CO briefed Moody that he had received anonymous letters from sailors complaining about the ship, their programme and messing conditions onboard. In particular the stay in Saldhana Bay for 14 days without leave upset many crew.

The CO reported 46 sailors asked to see him to complain about the poor messing facilities. Morale was also low due to lack of shore leave and the poor facilities on offer in Simonstown. The ship was in an increasingly poor state, and needed proper leave.

The original intention was to put into Port Elizabeth, but CINC was concerned that this was reduced to 10hrs stay due to "discontent among the ships company". The CINC saw this would have a huge impact on bilateral relations, but felt he couldn't interfere.

Onboard VANGUARD the CO was formally advised by his Commander and Chaplain that discontent over lack of leave was significant and "they could not guarantee the discontent would not take open form" (e.g. mutiny) if leave was not granted. This was a remarkable warning - the CO was being told by his most senior team that if he didn't change let his crew go ashore, they could not guarantee that discipline would hold aboard the ship - which was due to shortly embark the King, Queen and the Princesses for passage back to the UK. This is utterly unprecedented in Royal Navy history

Thankfully, the CO heeded the warning and amended his plans accordingly. Leave was granted and the mood lifted slightly. The CINC signalled the CO on 06 Apr, asking if discontent had lifted and if he felt confident the ship could continue her programme. On both counts the CO answered 'yes'. Despite this, the CINC signalled 1SL to warn him and ask for advice on what to do next.

In London there was concern. How close was the Flagship to open mutiny? The decision was taken to inform the Prime Minister and dispatch a senior MI5 Officer to carry out a full investigation in Cape Town to determine if there was any signs of subversion.

The MI5 officer sent was 'Major' HF Boddington. A former infantry officer in WW1, turned MI5 officer, in 1945 he 'liberated' Hitlers clock from the Reich chancery and gave it to Worcester museum. His story featured in a 2019 episode of the 'Antiques Roadshow' https://worcesternews.co.uk/news/176527 ... -roadshow/

The CINC was also authorised to personally brief Sir Alan 'Tommy' Lacelles (the Kings Private Secretary) on the situation in VANGAURD as it was noted "I feel it is possible the subject matter might reach him and others from other sources that I feel are undesirable".

Boddington joined the ship in Cape Town and carried out a full investigation. He briefed the CINC and it was agreed that he would fly back to London, not stay on passage with the ship on her return (with the King embarked), and provided a full verbal debrief to 1SL on his return.

Boddingtons report highlighted multiple concerns. The poor quality of the accommodation, the angry crew and a difficult run ashore in Gibraltar lent a sense that many of the Ships Company should not have been embarked for the voyage. Messing arrangements were notably poor, with concerns raised that sailors were missing meals and that they needed a complete rebuild to make sense.

The decision to nearly cancel leave in Port Elizabeth went down badly. The news that the ship would not on return have long leave in Portsmouth (her base port), before going to Devonport made many crew who would be denied seeing their family for first time in months very angry. It was seen as a real risk that if this occurred, they would join with the angry junior ratings and the ship would not sail (e.g. mutiny onboard).

The report noted concerns with the very poor relations between the Officers and Ratings. Many were angry at the wardroom luxury compared to mess deck misery. Honours were contentious, with the proposed awards for the deployment not recognising junior rates or 'old hands'.

Overall the Officers 'had little contact or knowledge of their men' and 'discipline and moral' were not good. This was not a happy ship and urgent leadership at all levels was needed to resolve the crisis before she sailed for home.

The Navy responded quickly. The King was made aware of the situation and personally authorised 3 days extra leave to allow the crew time in Portsmouth. The honours list was resubmitted later to allow time to properly recognise efforts.

The First Sea Lord directly briefed the Prime Minister on the situation, setting out his concerns and the actions taken to date. It was clear VANGUARD needed major updates to her fixtures to be used again in any role.

On the return to Portsmouth on 14 May Boddington was present to observe the mood. He noted a sense of unease, but "I am quite satisfied from my own observation and from many conversations with ratings, families, girl friends, etc., that the Ship’s Company of H.M.S. VANGUARD are not in any way disloyal to the Royal Family and that if anything their affections turn more to Their Majesties and the two Princesses than perhaps the Captain and Officers of their Ship."

The Kings decision to address the Ships Company in person to award 3 days extra leave went down well. "His talk was well received and comments were passed that he stood up and faced the men, whereas the Captain... had broadcast on 2 occasions a lot of flannel".

The investigation continued, but it was unclear if the ringleaders were found. Of note was the defacement of the Ships Bade, with the Motto "we lead" having 'a dogs life' added to them!

1SL recommended that the best result for VANGUARD would be a clean start. She was to be paid off to repair major fire damage to her weapons, and "a new crew provided for her". The King was briefed on slippages to the Honours list and approved a delay to its issue.

Thus ended the near mutiny on the VANGUARD. The ship was paid off into refit and never again served as a Royal Yacht. The file on the incident remained TOP SECRET until mid 2025.

This thread on the 1947 near mutiny on HMS VANGUARD, the top secret MI5 investigation and the role of King George 6th in calming events may interest: @Dr. Dan Lomas @Dr Phil Weir @Kate ✨️ @On This Day RN @Cold War Conversations Podcast @Mark Philip Rennie @Mark Urban @Shashank Joshi @Dr Helen Fry | WWII Historian @Dr. Dan Lomas @Rory Cormac @Navy Lookout @Steve Prest ⚔️ 🛠️⚡⚓🍓 @Paul Beaver @ Beaver Westminster @JamesFennell MBE @Scott Bateman MBE @BenH @Dr Claire Hubbard-Hall | The Spy Historian @George Allison @Tom Egan among many others!

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by pascalemod » Wed May 21, 2025 12:09 pm

Perhaps of interest, to some of the Vanguard fans, but a popular F2P video game announced Vanguard is getting added to the game in the next update. FWIW this gives some high quality renders of the model at the very least to us. Pretty cool. Looks nice in renders, may be as modelling source can be useful.

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Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by JohnMcDermott » Thu Dec 05, 2024 4:19 am

Timmy C wrote:
JohnMcDermott wrote:I've started building the 3D Wild "kit". If anyone is interested I can post pictures of its SLOW progress. Not sure where on the forum though ?
You want to post pictures of a work in progress? Then simply post in Picture Post -> Works In Progress :big_grin: viewforum.php?f=59
I had seen a WIP Forum but I thought it was only for scratch build & radio control. Thanks for your help.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Timmy C » Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:43 pm

JohnMcDermott wrote:I've started building the 3D Wild "kit". If anyone is interested I can post pictures of its SLOW progress. Not sure where on the forum though ?
You want to post pictures of a work in progress? Then simply post in Picture Post -> Works In Progress :big_grin: viewforum.php?f=59

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by JohnMcDermott » Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:26 am

I've started building the 3D Wild "kit". If anyone is interested I can post pictures of its SLOW progress. Not sure where on the forum though ?

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by GTDEATH13 » Wed Aug 07, 2024 7:29 am

I have been searching for info on the 3D printed kit and managed to find someone who bought the kit.

First some photos from the various sellers:

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These are the photos I was sent

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The hull is of the same print quality as the superstructure parts. It needs a good primer-filler so as to get a smooth surface.

The brass parts are excellent but a bit on the thin side similar to Flyhawk quality.

Some cleanup is required.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Falcon02 » Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:48 pm

ABK in NZ wrote:Yep - A huge multimedia project with nothing extra to purchase, there are some photos on Fb under "3D" of the kit and I'll see if I can post some on here.

About NZD530 spent and then free shipping and after a long wait I'd better get gluing!

ABK in NZ
I'd love to see some pics, it's about the same cost in AUD so be good to know what you get. Not made a full 3d printed kit before.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by ABK in NZ » Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:24 pm

Yep - A huge multimedia project with nothing extra to purchase, there are some photos on Fb under "3D" of the kit and I'll see if I can post some on here.

About NZD530 spent and then free shipping and after a long wait I'd better get gluing!

ABK in NZ

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Guest » Wed Jul 31, 2024 6:19 pm

Has anyone picked up the 3D wild/Chuanyu Models kit? I haven't seen any reviews and only found a low res unboxing on youtube.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Timmy C » Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:37 am

Those are some fantastic shots, thank you for sharing them!

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by RustyB » Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:10 pm

Unseen pictures ...as they were taken by my father as per the note on the reverse. Her served on Vanguard later, but was on Raider when he took these pictures


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HMS Raider

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Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by 81542 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:29 am

I would further venture to suggest that the horizontal surfaces ("A" turret roof and what I presume is the paravane house abaft the forward breakwater) visible in the upper image, are not painted dark grey either but what I believe "Dick" identified elsewhere as
"Van Dyke" brown!

81542

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Mr. Church » Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:25 am

81542 wrote:Thank you, Mr Church. Those with their wits about them will also notice that the upper image has been published incorrectly: the sheet anchor should be on the starboard side.

81542
I hadn't initially spotted that but yes quite right the photo is wrongly mirror imaged. I had a quick look but couldn't seem to find any more colour photos taken at the same time. Would love to know what colour 'Y' Turret roof was at that time. In the aerial photos it shows as being distinctly different from 'A', 'B' and 'X' Turret roofs which all appear to be dark deck grey. Or rather are now proven to be dark deck grey as you can see a small portion of the roof of 'A' Turret in the first photo I posted.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by 81542 » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:12 pm

Thank you, Mr Church. Those with their wits about them will also notice that the upper image has been published incorrectly: the sheet anchor should be on the starboard side.

81542

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Mr. Church » Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:38 pm

By chance while looking for something else I found some interesting colour photos taken aboard Vanguard at the time of the 1953 Coronation Review. They are not tagged as 'Vanguard' so don't come up when you search for Vanguard. They are Alamy Stock photos, copyright rests with original owner. Previews posted here for ease of viewing:
HMS Vanguard 1953 Spithead Review colour 1.jpg
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-battl ... 46805.html
HMS Vanguard 1953 Spithead Review colour 2.jpg
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-battl ... 46804.html

Curiously in contrast to my earlier post, her anchor chafing plates / rubbing strips are painted green at the time of the Coronation Review. They had reverted to brown again by the time of her scrapping.

Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans

by Kiwi Kev » Sat May 14, 2022 6:43 pm

This battleship is a very interesting ship. Love that it used those old 15 inch turrets, thus maintaining a very visible link to dreadnought battleships of 30 or 40 years previous.
If I could I would post some pictures of my 1:600 scratch build. I chose this scale to go with my other Airfix fleet. Initially I toyed with converting the 1:600 KGV into a Vanguard. But this is easily the best Airfix model I've seen and so it will be built as a KGV. So I experimented with a balsa and card construction of the hull, and it sort of progressed from there.
I later discovered that Micro-masters supplies a 1:600 set of main and secondary turrets, when I was about half way through scratch building my own that turned out OK, so I decided against buying them. Seems a bit weird as I'm not aware of any kit in 1:600, other than attempting a conversion of the KGV as mentioned earlier.
The 40mm directors appear to be CRBFD's that appeared on a lot of post war British ships for various uses including as Seacat Directors. I can only imagine the number of technicians needed to keep all those radars operating. Comments on STAAG firing on HMNZS Royalist at towed targets indicated it was very accurate, demolishing the target and then tracking up the tow cable. So the number of Type 262 Radar laid 40mm barrels on this ship is truly amazing. The high command and good arcs of fire are also noteworthy. They would probably have been operable in almost any conditions, unlike many main deck positions on other ships that would be washed out in a sea way.

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