The Ship Model Forum

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:16 pm

yea I have 2 being built for me now.

but i dont think Phil is talking computers but the software being able to do everything. IE just use solidworks to draw everything with as well as manipulate bmps etc. thats also the reason I use corel draw for my 2D as I can do a lot of the photo editing and messing with at the same time as drawing. That yammy I sent ya rob was done with corel.

Joe

by **rtwpsom2** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:03 pm

I guess I am a victim of my ignorance. I specifically bought a ton of memory so I could do all this stuff at the same time and I keep forgetting some people might not have, want, or need the extra expense. 64-bit can be a big hassle sometimes but this machine was built specifically for this stuff.

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:19 pm

lol I was just teasing you. today has not been a good day. I been redrawing a truss that I drew up for our 1:1 Scale P-51 Mustang we are doing for the new Ft Meyers Airport terminal.

We spent weeks going over everything and getting the design down with me even driving to alabama for a week to go over the stuff. I created a nice pdf with the drawings sent all the templates etc. now the guy I draw for (not the airport) wants to totally redesign the thing because he wants to make it so he can do all kinds of stupid crap with it that wont be on this one but he wants to build this one just like future ones. he doesnt understand 3D cad isnt like 2D where i can scratch all over some paper and its done. he dont realize what using planes and points in 3D space take a wee bit longer to do. he told me the changes yest and today he is screaming he needs the drawings and whats taking so long lol.

I told him he gets them when I am done with them and i cant draw while talking on the phone rofl. he is wanting me to do a week to week in halfs worth of drawing over night just because somehow I always pull miricles out my arse now he expects it.

Grumpy (((

lol

by **DrPR** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:06 pm

Joe,

Don't take it so hard - I'm just the messenger, so don't shoot me!

I am very pessimistic that programs will ever be able to cross the line between bitmap and vector. As long as software companies are run by greedy business types it will never happen. There is a reason why Adobe has Photoshop and Illustrator, and several versions of each. Ditto AutoDesk and its plethora of products. They can charge and arm and a leg for each of them. If they had just one program to sell you could keep one arm and one leg!

From a user standpoint it would be great if all CAD programs shared a common file type. Then we could pass files freely between programs. Mention this to a &*@#^-for-brains business monkey and he will go into spasms! That is the absolute last thing the marketing morons want, for then users could change programs freely and keep using their existing work. The business scum want to hold you prisoner to their programs and continue bleeding you dry.

Several virtual reality modeling languages (3D modeling) have been developed by academics, but the people who run the software companies refuse to use them. It is no coincidence that after IGES appeared as a file exchange format that every single CAD software company developed it's own incompatable version. They can claim to use IGES, but you can't use IGES files from any other program.

I have been dealing with these sleazebags for 30 years, with many different programs and companys. In that entire time not one company has made a serious effort to be cross-program compatible. In my opinion, they all suck!

See - I can really be a killjoy when I try!

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:37 pm

your just a party pooper and killjoy tonight arent you roflmao

by **DrPR** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:31 pm

I don't think you will ever be able to do everything in a single program.

The CAD program I use (DesignCAD) allows me to work with bitmaps to a limited degree - scale, rotate, autotrace, etc. - they are just drawing objects. However, some of my scanned blueprints are 800 Mbyte to 1.2 Gbyte in size. It takes ten minutes just to load these files, and the redraws drag the CAD program to a crawl.

I can open these in Photoshop (a bitmap program) and edit them MUCH faster. I don't need most of the information in the original files (revision notes, references, parts lists, etc.), so I cut out the parts I want and paste them into a MUCH smaller bitmap file to use in the CAD program. I can also erase unwanted clutter and scale the bitmap in Photoshop, and save the new bitmap file at lower pixel resolution to further reduce the file size. Some bitmap file formats work much better than others as file imports into the CAD program, and Photoshop allows me to translate the image into the best format. Then I import the small bitmap files into the CAD program.

It is best to use a bitmap editor program to prepare the image for import into the CAD program, and use the CAD program to create the 3D model without trying to mess with the bitmap image. 3D drawing programs just aren't good bitmap editors, and probably never will be.

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:14 pm

ok will try that. it actually dont take me long to trace the basic outlines in corel. and by doing that I dont have the extra memory of a 12 meg picture in SW.

I think the Yamato outlines with all the dimensions etc took me abt 2 hrs to trace and fix errors and inaccuracies. so I dont mind using 2 programs but one day would like to be good enough using all of SW features to do everything with just sw and not need any other programs for anything.

Joe

by **rtwpsom2** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:46 pm

Try making a plane, then use tools>sketch tools>sketch picture. Never rely on the drawing scale because when you scan it it all goes out the window depending on your screen resolution and the scanning resolution. Draw a bounding box and a centerline before you insert the picture. Then rotate it and scale it manually. It's the only way you will know it is perfectly accurate. You should also crop the scan of the hull lines pretty close and save it as a separate file. Otherwise SW will get bogged down with useless calculating when you insert it.

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:16 pm

I use Corel Draw at the moment. I just want to learn how to insert the picture onto a plane ( think I know that one already done it a few times) but then I want to be able to scale the picture to the appropriate size/scale (what I dont know how to do)

But by doing it in corel I can scale everything and arrange things so that I can adjust the scale on stations etc so they actually match the plan views since most the time they dont all match.

Joe

by **rtwpsom2** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:09 pm

What are you using to trace the lines? I started off using ACAD for the sketch then opening the dwg in SW, but then I found out about sketch images.

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:54 pm

np will be a while i just ordered my new drawings yest so by time i get them get them scanned get the parts traced lol we talking a couple weeks. at least on the that hull for the cruiser. if I ever get time from this airport model job to mess with my Yamato or bismark or Fletcher destroy again lol we shall see. I have a list in my head of 6 ships that I want to build at 1/72 scale but my main concern right now is just to get one hull drawn up so I can get a ship built before summer so me and my grandson can have fun this summer at the pond. thats why everythings so frustrating to me i think as I am in too big a hurry to get some kind of ships hull into solidworks so I can begin building.

joe

by **rtwpsom2** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:48 pm

Ah, ok. Let me know when you want to do it.

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:42 pm

theres no account to set up its free you just goto the page and click on the join or share. dunno what ya mean abt account as theres no account to set up

Joe

by **rtwpsom2** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:39 pm

I set up an account there, but apparently it's only good for 15 days. It might be better to do a remote access, but we can worry about that later.

by **proflooney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:02 pm

thanks rob I have a constrained station right in the middle of the bulge but it still pops out. I have a found out in the past it usually means

A: I have an out of whack shape at that point (not the case here)

B: theres a transition shape that isnt correct ( the way I am leaning thats why I just ordered the drawings from floating drydock and through some email convos found out his drawings use original table of offsets and fixed what errors he found. so I think it will fix the problem when the proper stations arrive.

I been reading some more on the book and so while waiting for more accurate drawings started metting some with the superstructure and doing some of the surfacing tutorials.

maybe sometime later on after I do more studying and get my stations in and stuff if I have a major problem maybe you can join me on http://join.me where you can see my screen and prob see the errors better

Joe

by **rtwpsom2** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:41 pm

It looks like you have gotten over the the major issues. Now you see why I am a big proponent of using a single loft for the entire surface. It just comes out looking 100% better. The bulges are just part of it. You have to work them out by trial and error. Something I would do at this point would be to add another plane and hull line right in the middle of the bulge. Use pierce to constrain your new hull lines to the guide curves and then smooth the geometry yourself. Which is pretty much my answer for everything as far as hull go, if it doesn't go where you want it to, add more geometry to make it.

The next thing you will want to do after you get the bow and stern added is the main deck surface. Some things to keep in mind when doing the main deck surface. It is cambered, e.g. rounded. This sheds water and adds torsional integrity to the hull. The radius is usually consistent on US ships (Bismarck and other European ships might have had a variable radius). The easiest way to do the deck surface is to use a surface sweep from the stern forward to the bow. The profile will be a very large radius arc symmetrical with the centerline. The path will start with a straight horizontal line then will go into a tangential spline somewhere near the first turret/breakwater. I would use an arc here too but the radius is always too large, SW has a radius limit of 1000 metres for all circle based geometry but the spline works too. Something you will see because of this is that the outer edge of the deck will be lower as it gets wider when everything is trimmed up.

By the way, I think using wood texture on stuff like this is just plain silly.

Forgot to mention, when working with the hull surfaces, try zebra stripes, they really let you know when something is hinky.

by **proflooney** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:45 am

Well I got the flow going better but I keep getting a bulge at one area. all the sides are straight and there is a former right in the center of the bulge. it flows nicely with the rest of the hull but for some reason deforms right there. I tried placing a guide curve there but it still bulged.

by **DrPR** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:28 pm

The "crease" is called a "knuckle" in ship terms. There are several very good photos of Brooklyn sterns on Navsource. Here are two:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/040/0404022.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/050/0405025.jpg

It looks like the knuckle in the hull plating actually extended almost to the bow of the ship. The armor belt was attached to the outside of the hull plating and hid much of the knuckle.

Just forward of the stern the stern the knuckle disappears and the hull plating curves smoothly from the vertical sides to the bottom. The stern of the ship was a slightly curved transom with knuckles all around (sides and bottom).

by **proflooney** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:50 am

Ok I got the crease where I am happy but the thing bottering me is the bottom goes from radius to flat to flat with radius and it just doesnt look right. then again I am new to ships so I wouldnt know if it was right or wrong by lookng at it like i would be able to do with planes

Joe

by **proflooney** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:16 am

Well it started out looking good but that stern I just dont like it. I think one of my profiles needs adjusted but it still doesnt look right

Joe

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